Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Fair
I miss that goofball lmao. Hope he's well
Nbc poll finds Americans still support Israel, but less than past
Peter Guo
Americans’ opinions of both Israel and the Palestinian Authority have deteriorated in the past year, according to a Gallup poll released today.
A total of 58% of Americans view Israel favorably, down 10% from last year, the poll found. It is the lowest rating to the U.S. ally in more than 20 years.
Positive opinions of the Palestinian Authority have also dropped by 8% to 18%, the lowest rating in nine years, the survey found.
The largest decline in favorable ratings of Israel was observed among young adults ages 18 to 34, with a drop from 64% in 2023 to 38%.
Americans continue to lean toward Israel, with 51% saying they sympathize more with the Israelis and 27% more with the Palestinians. However, the gap has narrowed in recent years.
Monterey quit the forum.
He got into a nasty back and forth with me, tried to get bowser to ban me, bowser didn't oblige. Monty posted less and less, gave a few retirement goodbye speeches, asked for a few self bans and then disappeared.
All the best to him! 😆
Israel isn’t an ally lol. They spy on us more than any other country. And they have killed countless Americans during this genocide
Isreal is an ally, Netanyahu is not.
Sorry they spy on us the third most, Russia and China are first
Tell me again how they are an ally? By what measure
Another day, another revelation about how the United States and Israel are at each other’s throats over negotiations to curb Iran’s nuclear program. This time, it’s the Wall Street Journal with the scoop: U.S. officials, while spying on Israel, discovered that Israel had been spying on American negotiators and then sharing that information with lawmakers in Washington to undermine support for a potential deal with Tehran.
The meta aspects of the story — the U.S. spying on a rival which had in turn been spying on the U.S. — shouldn’t come as much of a surprise. The leaders of Israel and the United States have spent decades proclaiming that there was a “special relationship” between the two countries, but their security services view each other with more suspicion. According to numerous books, former officials, and media accounts, Israel mounts more aggressive espionage efforts against the United States than almost any other nation on the planet. Less is known about American efforts to spy on Israel, though it is all but certain that Washington gathers intelligence on its putative ally frequently and intensely — particularly with the White House concerned about a preemptive Israeli strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities.
I do wonder in what capacity Israel is an ally. like how do they help the USA?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Libert...
with friends like this
oh and dont forget
Israel mistook an American ship 55+ years ago means they aren’t America’s ally now??
Keep lol-ing Vic.
That’s not what happened. They jammed our comms and killed like 75 people
What kinda ignorant world do you live in?
You’re literally just making stuff up.
It was 34 people. And it was a mistake, they didn’t realize it was an American ship when they attacked.
Why do you feel the need to lie through your teeth?
Being off by 36 people when describing nation on nation violence is a hilarious point to go after
Do you know more than the US intelligence services? No. You’re wrong. Own it. Israel attacked the US in order to gain support for an attack on Iran
It was a false flag just like the gulf of Tonkin or countless other made up false flag American attacks
You’re literally just making stuff up.
It was 34 people. And it was a mistake, they didn’t realize it was an American ship when they attacked.
Why do you feel the need to lie through your teeth?
Do we need to go over the difference between being wrong and lying? You also don’t seem to know what the adjective “like” means
So lying is when someone is being deceitful
Being wrong is when you are incorrect about the facts and or position you are taking
You are wrong that Israel didn’t know it was a US ship. They attacked it for hours on hours, jammed our specific radio freq that only the US uses and they killed LIKE 75 people
Now please tell me where I was lying
“ At first overshadowed by Israel's stunning victory, the attack on the Liberty was destined to become a recurring source of tension between Israel and the United States. Although Israel apologized for the attack and paid compensation to its victims, many American officials rejected Israel's claim that the Liberty incident had been an honest mistake. Rather, they blamed Israel for what was at best inexcusable negligence, or at worst the premeditated murder of American servicemen. Such charges persisted in the face of successive inquiries by a broad range of American agencies and Congressional committees, as well as a full Israeli court of inquiry, all of which found no proof whatsoever that Israel knowingly attacked an American ship. On the contrary, the evidence produced by these investigations lent further support to Israel's claim that its decision to attack was, given the circumstances, a reasonable error.”
Do we need to go over the difference between being wrong and lying? You also don’t seem to know what the adjective “like” means
So lying is when someone is being deceitful
Being wrong is when you are incorrect about the facts and or position you are taking
You are wrong that Israel didn’t know it was a US ship. They attacked it for hours on hours, jammed our specific radio freq that only the US uses and they killed LIKE 75 people
Now please tell me where I was lying
How in the world is 34 deaths “like” 75?? It’s less than half.
Show me PROOF that Israel knew it was a US ship. Like actual proof.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC...
You can draw your own conclusions.
Not going to get into a back and forth over 35 people when I said I was approximating. Not my fault you don’t understand English
“Oh there’s no signed statement saying Israel did it on purpose must not be true “
Let’s not even get into pollard or Epstein and how they were running Israeli intelligence operations in the US
But you know about pollard right? Right?
I think the fact that he has to go back almost 60 years to prove his point, and provide dubious information, kind of makes the point his argument doesn't have much merit. Anyways, the US has strategically allied itself with nations/groups much worse than Israel.
I mean ISIS are literally the worse people in the world today, and we kind of created them.
Israel in 2024 certainly doesn't seem any worse than most of the other countries in that part of the world. Better in most respects. They fight more, but that can be explained by being attacked more. The only reason why someone would be particularly interested in Israel is:
1. Good old fashioned anti-semitism
2. Some belief they are a western/white nation and should be held to higher standards
--Obviously the Muslim world (including the Western Muslim diaspora) is motivated mainly by tribalism/antisemitism, and have no first principles beyond tribalism, so there isn't much to do about their hate.
But for most non Muslims I think it would be best just to accept Israel is a Middle Eastern nation, which means it is going to kind of suck by default, because the Middle East is a giant pile of human suckiness, and adjust your expectations accordingly.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC...
You can draw your own conclusions.
Not going to get into a back and forth over 35 people when I said I was approximating. Not my fault you don’t understand English
“Oh there’s no signed statement saying Israel did it on purpose must not be true “
Let’s not even get into pollard or Epstein and how they were running Israeli intelligence operations in the US
But you know about pollard right? Right?
You approximated 34 as 75. Not my fault you don’t understand math.
Also this happened decades ago. Isn’t a reflection on the current relationship.
on planet vic we discuss the impact that an obscure friendly fire incident fifty five years ago has on current day israel usa relations, and whether nations with such a history can ever really be allies
meanwhile, in the real world, germany and israel are firm allies three generations on from the holocaust
