LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

If Kyrie wins this year, it would confirm that he's the key that unlocks the winning formula for ball-domination - Lebron's ring quality would be reduced.

Hopefully, Kyrie will win FMVP so I can say that Lebron needed FMVP's at sidekick to win as 1st option.. Either way, he needed sidekicks that could make the Finals without him.

So even though it goes against all my narratives, but I hope the ball-dominator (Luka) beats the expert jumpshooter (Tatum).

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Ant was upset and swept by #13 SRS team despite 17 on 73 TS from Naz Reid, while MJ upset the #1 SRS team with 15 on 51 TS from Pippen

2024 Mavs............ #13 SRS
1989 Cavs............... #1 SRS

Except he wasn't swept.

the point remains:

89' Pippen..................... 15 on 51 TS
24' Naz Reid.................. 15 on 69 TS
24' KAT........................... 18 on 47 TS
24' Conley...................... 14 on 59 TS
24' McDaniels'............... 13 on 69 TS
24' Gobert...................... 13 on 67 TS

5 teammates are performing at "pippen-level", yet Ant is getting upset by #13 SRS, while MJ upset the #1 SRS.

This is a BAD mavs team based on every metric (#13 SRS) - MJ would average 40 against this weak team just like he did against the #1 SRS in 86' or 89', and many other teams.

Who's saying Ant is better than Jordan?

Dallas cannot mail this game in tonight - they can't give it away and think they'll win at home in Game 6.. It literally never works out for the team mailing it in... Giving a game away via blowout gives the other team confidence and doesn't wear them down.. The team giving the game away is worried about saving energy but they need to wear down the opposing team by playing hard, otherwise the opponent is fresh AND confident from the blowout..

TLDR: if Dallas gets blown out tonight (if they mail the game in), they will lose the series... Otoh, if tonight is a close game so both teams get worn down, then Dallas will win in 6 (or 5 if they win tonight)

Kyrie dragged Lebron to one championship, now dragging Luka to another. True goat on this flat earth.

Everyone's trolling about it... And they're doing the whole thing where they say "let's compare Jordan's 1st-year team when he was 22 years old to the 4th-year team of Ant at 22 years old so we can say Ant was a better winner at 22 than MJ"

[x] Projection

Some people

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Massive double standard identified on FS1

KAT was completely DESTROYED by Broussard and Nick Wright for scoring less than 18 in half the playoff games thus far, except Pippen averaged less than 18 for entire title runs with worst-ever shooting splits for a playoff run of 15 games and 35 MPG (96' and 98').. (the clip where Nick Wright destroys KAT over 18 points is here).

In addition to averaging under 18 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs, Pippen had less than 18 points in half the games of the is 92' and 93' title runs.. Small forwards like X-Man, Dominique, Schrempf, and Juwan Howard destroyed Pippen, while KAT was credited with winning Game 7 against Denver and making Jokic work harder than normal.

So can you see how Pippen is praised because MJ dragged his weak production to titles, while KAT plays better than Pippen but is destroyed for it because Ant can't drag it to titles??... Pippen never played above a peak Iguodala or Larry Nance level, but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and media accolade.. Ultimately, since no one benefitted from the winning spotlight more than Pippen, he's the most overrated player of all-time..

Cowherd says that Ant "just needs his Pippen", but he already has his Pippen because the "pippen" is the weak sidekick production that must be dragged to titles.. See Kobe, Curry or MJ for successful examples of this.
Reason for Editing:

What about 2022 when Kyrie & KD got swept by the Celtics?

Doesn’t count - neither does losing 4-1 to the Bucks with “expert jump shooter” Tatum in 2019, or missing the playoffs entirely with Luka last year.

You guys never care when lebron loses and always have an excuse - he lost 17 of 21 years and you have an excuse for every one...

The only year that you don't blame Lebron is 2011, even though he melted down mentally in 2010 as well, while playing far worse than 22-year old Ant in the 07' Finals..

Lebron also let his team give up in the 2014 Finals for all to see - it was an embarrassment and lesson in brand of ball administered by fossil Duncan - Duncan had all the age excuses that Lebron had the last few years, yet he won by record amount, while Lebron gets swept or misses the play-in.

Lebron also had 7 TO's in the critical 4th quarter of Game 4 that swung the 2009 ECF - he became a 12 turnover-per-48 minute player in crunch-time of that series (last 5 within 5) and had a goat defensive blunder by guarding Courtney Lee instead of his own position (Hedo Turkoglu)...

People laud Lebron's 38 ppg but he was resting on defense against Lee, while Hedo picked them apart.. Lebron was also too ball-dominant at high scoring level to beat a top team, so he really didn't "know how to win" at that time with zero post game or scoring diversity - he was just a "down-hill" player, which isn't 5-man basketball, so it couldn't develop the great chemistry needed for a great-performing cast, aka great team.

And there's countless other losses and debacles such as missing the playoffs in his prime in 2019 or losing with 2 all-star teammates in 2011, 2014 and 2017.. He only won 53 games in 2017 and was massacred with prime Kyrie and Love - that's pathetic.. Of course, Lebron averaged 26 on 35% in the 2008 2nd Round - he was carried by his team's reputed defense - the 08' Cavs were a Year 5 team but only won 45 games until Lebron received the all-star spacing his stiff-arm needed in 2009 to be MVP and have a contender.

That was the season Kyrie refused to play because he was taking a legendary stand for personal freedom - the fact that you use that as an example shows the weakness of your argument and the continuing strength of mine.

And you realize that Kyrie just destroyed 80's Jordan in this series, I mean Ant Edwards, and he already destroyed peak Curry in 2016 to become a champion, so Kyrie is a goat-level player.

Luka correctly made the Finals in the West with Kyrie, while Lebron needed to win a conference that was battered and diluted by in-conference team-ups with 3 franchise players (Wade, Kyrie, Bosh).

The disparity in conference strength is confirmed by prime Lebron being lottery out West in his first season and then getting completely massacred for the last 4 seasons with AD and other teammates with all-star, all-defense, or future HOF on their resume - i.e. it's pretty nice to have a HOF or all-star bench like Westbrook, Melo, Dwight, D-Lo, Bradley, and many more.

Luka made the Finals with Kyrie, which means an MJ/Kyrie backcourt would produce and even more spectacular team - we see how a slight imrovement from Luka and Kyrie defensively improved the team, so Ja goat defender like Jordan would revolutionize the team... There's also the superior strategic capacity offered by Jordan's more diverse scoring skillset, aka off-ball/ball movement/high assist teams/5-man basketball - this superior brand of ball yields the great chemistry required for great-performing casts, aka great teams..

In addition to producing superior brand of ball that elevates teammates, Jordan's skillset and scoring diversity wins the attrition battle.. Specifically, he didn't dominate the ball and the zippy ball movement that his skillset allowed wore down opponent's defenses, thereby leaving less capacity for offense.. For an example of this, just watch the upcoming Finals where Luka and Kyrie shoot like dog **** as the series progresses because they've `been worn down by a superior brand of ball..

You'll see - the Celtics will appear unstoppable in this series and wearing out the Mavs' defense via the zippy ball movement allowed by an expert jumpshooter like Tatum - a guy that can live off pin-downs and quick moves upon the catch - he's like a taller version of Kyrie regarding the quick moves upon the catch, but he can also play closer to the rim and catch the ball spots that pose immediate danger to the defense.

Btw, all of this is based on empirical evidence, aka 21 years of observing the most ball-dominant player ever and therefore not surprisingly, the losingest

Shooting % by distance this year: “Expert Jump Shooter” Tatum vs “Inferior Ball Dominator” Luka

Tatum:
0-3 feet: 74.1%
3-10: 44.1%
10-16: 38.9%
16-3P: 39.7%
3P: 37.6%

Luka:
0-3: 83.8%
3-10: 56.9%
10-16: 44.2%
16-3P: 42.2%
3P: 38.2%

Luka is superior by a truly huge margin at every level of shotmaking than Tatum. Additionally, he does so at a larger volume of “midrange” shot attempts: only 18.4% of Tatum’s shot attempts are 10 feet out to 3P, whereas Luka shoots 23.7% of his attempts from the same distance.

But I expect nothing less from a fraud who has said he has 21 years of observational data on LeBron, yet has also admitted to basically not watching the NBA in 15 years.

Fraudguy smh

I already pointed out to him that Luka has much better shooting statistics than Tatum. He replied once, ignored my follow-up that pointed out the complete nonsense in his reply, and then went straight back to implying that Tatum is the better jump shooter. I am intrigued as to how he handles it this time though.

The ironic thing is, Luka is actually the exact mold of “tough contested shot maker” that he claims to love and is key to winning. Not only is Luka the superior shot maker across the board but he’s also much better at contested jump shots as well. Tatum shoots 52.3% with defenders within 0-2 feet and 48.9% within 2-4 feet, while Luka shoots 57.3% and 52.1%.

He simply has not watched basketball (this is admitted by him) or made any changes to his thinking in the last 15 years or so. It’s like watching a guy use an abacus to do complex math against people with supercomputers and claiming superior knowledge.

Just shows how destructive KD really is. Only Steph could drag his ass to the championship. Look what he turned Devin booker into. And he completely killed Russ. He's like kryptonite.

Tatum can live off pin-downs and quick jumpers on the catch like the one shown above that Luka cannot - Luka needs a live dribble to dominate via jumpshooting, so this more ball-dominant approach yields inferior chemistry than Tatum's juggernaut

Yeah but you're talking about shots off a live dribble, which Luka is superior at (ball-domination), but he lacks the off-ball ability that includes spot-ups, off-screens and quick shots upon the catch (as shown above)...

Otoh, Tatum has everything (ball-domination and also the shots shown above), so he's a true expert jumpshooter, aka he's a great jumpshooter on-ball and off-ball.. Just check their assisted rates - Luka is rarely even assisted by teammates at all.

And my reply to you last time was to point out that Tatum doesn't do that at all. He barely shoots any more catch-and-shoot type shots than Luka does and 90% of them are from 3. The idea that he takes lots of quick midrange jumpers off the catch is pure fantasy. He attempts barely 3 shots a game from between 10 and 20 feet and a very small percentage of them are of the catch-and-shoot variety. The only area that Tatum takes more shots than Luka from is inside 5 feet.

Tatum is predominantly a downhill scorer who tries to takes most of his (2 point) shots from close to the rim while also having the ability to hit 3s off the dribble. Luka is predominantly an outside jump shooter who also scores most off his points off the dribble.

He is one of the best if not the best passer I. The league so I really don't want him running around off ball like Steph. I want him on ball to generate play for his teammates. He creates how many corner threes by throwing to someone not in the corner?

Tatum lover study can't face that Boston is a **** hole and the USa is behind Europe in basketball.