Israel/Palestine thread

Israel/Palestine thread

Think this merits its own thread...

Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..

AM YISRAEL CHAI.

[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD

2+2 Rules

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These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.

To reiterate some of the points:

1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.

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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]

) 13 Views 13
07 October 2023 at 09:33 PM
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30593 Replies

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by jalfrezi k

Nice shooting, Israel!

Six years old but she already graduated from high school? Sure... 🙄


What’s your point rob? Are you unaware that kids like to dress up sometimes?


by Bluegrassplayer k

Who invited Netanyahu to address congress? Can Speaker Johnson do this unilaterally if the Biden administration doesn't approve it?


by jalfrezi k

No, I’ve made it very clear many times that I think the Hamas attacks on members of the public were atrocious.

All it requires for you not to make these stupid posts is the ability to read and to possess some semblance of memory.

Stop mischaracterising my views.

If someone in Germany thinks that the Nazi party shouldn't be banned from participation in the government, I think it's fair to assume that they are pro-Nazi.


by jalfrezi k

What’s your point rob? Are you unaware that kids like to dress up sometimes?

I'm trying out this sarcasm thing that everyone wants me to learn. I even put an emoji with it to make it easier to understand.


by Bluegrassplayer k

Axios, and Barak Ravid especially, have been the best for reporting on this imo. Here's the article which covers all of it, seems pretty fair to me:

https://www.axios.com/2024/06/24/netanya...

That article acknowledges Hamas already rejected the deal. Again, proposing something new after the old deal had already been thoroughly rejected by the other side isn't "walking it back" by any reasonable understanding of the term IMO.


by chillrob k

I believe Germans have sovereignty over Germany, despite the ban on the Nazi party.

They could revoke the ban if they so desired, so yes of course they have sovereignty.


by chillrob k

If someone in Germany thinks that the Nazi party shouldn't be banned from participation in the government, I think it's fair to assume that they are pro-Nazi.

I’m not in Palestine rob. I’d prefer an organisation like Hamas not to be anywhere near government but it’s up to Palestinians.

Have I made myself clear?


by jalfrezi k

They could revoke the ban if they so desired, so yes of course they have sovereignty.

the German constitution has many unmodifiable parts (so called eternity clause, Ewigkeitsklausel) unlike the American one.

and it was passed with the approval of the allied powers both in 1949 and in 1990 after reunification.

yes other countries voted for that text to become the law, not German citizens.

first 20 articles are not modifiable.

tell me again about the full unconstrained sovereignty of Germany pls (80 years after the war ended)


by Luciom k

the German constitution has many unmodifiable parts (so called eternity clause, Ewigkeitsklausel) unlike the American one.

and it was passed with the approval of the allied powers both in 1949 and in 1990 after reunification.

yes other countries voted for that text to become the law, not German citizens.

first 20 articles are not modifiable.

tell me again about the full unconstrained sovereignty of Germany pls (80 years after the war ended)

shrug

It was put in place by Germany. Who’s to stop a future leader from removing it? Things can be very easily torn up under a new constitution. It’s not as if Germany doesn’t have history in this regard.


by jalfrezi k

shrug

It was put in place by Germany. Who’s to stop a future leader from removing it? Things can be very easily torn up under a new constitution. It’s not as if Germany doesn’t have history in this regard.

it was put in place by the allied powers which voted on it.

and this time there are American military bases in the country (like 40) to avoid a repeat.

imagine an "independent" Palestine with several IDF bases in it's territory, 80 years after "independence".


In either case, I still think it would be fair to claim the people have sovereignty, despite a few outside rules imposed as to who can participate in government.

I don't see how that would be significantly different than expecting a country to follow international law, which is mentioned often in this thread.


by Dunyain k

Given Hamas has emphatically rejected any deal that would require them to relinquish control (which is their prerogative), it seems pretty bad faith to construe Netanyahu's plans to possibly move forward with some other arrangement that may bring hostages home as "walking back the deal."

I get that the Israeli left and Biden administration may deem Netanyahu part of the problem, and they might be right. But I dont think anyone is buying it when they pretend Hamas is actually cooperating and Neta

I don't see why Hamas would entertain this. Lose some of your leverage by releasing some hostages and we'll come back later and eradicate you.
Of course Hamas' minimum negotiating point is that they stay intact.
The hand plays itself between these two.


"far right neo nazi" my ass.

Unapologetically being pro Israel is the utmost moral imperative. If these days we have to look at "far right" (actually center right moderates from one generation ago) politicians to have that in Europe, so be it.



by 5 south k

I don't see why Hamas would entertain this. Lose some of your leverage by releasing some hostages and we'll come back later and eradicate you.
Of course Hamas' minimum negotiating point is that they stay intact.
The hand plays itself between these two.

As long as they think they won't necessarily lose sure.

Which is why you don't start negotiating till that point. At some point you might accept they leave to Qatar/Iran instead of killing every one of them, that's the negotiation.


by Luciom k

"far right neo nazi" my ass.

Unapologetically being pro Israel is the utmost moral imperative. If these days we have to look at "far right" (actually center right moderates from one generation ago) politicians to have that in Europe, so be it.

Muslims are the new Jews.

Once they've finished with them, guess who's next on the white supremacists' list?


by jalfrezi k

Muslims are the new Jews.

Once they've finished with them, guess who's next on the white supremacists' list?

Two unclear pronouns here, I don't know what you're meaning to say.


no its quite clear.


Calling "white supremacist" someone who is married with a Jew must be peak leftism.

The semantic raping doesn't work anymore.


sometimes I hate being right all the time


by chillrob k

Two unclear pronouns here, I don't know what you're meaning to say.

In my humble opinion, referring to pro-Israel individuals as white supremacists is inappropriate and should not be tolerated. However, I recognize that my viewpoint may not hold significant weight in this matter.

The prevalence of hate speech is deeply concerning and should be addressed.


by chillrob k

Who invited Netanyahu to address congress? Can Speaker Johnson do this unilaterally if the Biden administration doesn't approve it?

In my professional opinion, it appears that Johnson had the authority to act independently, but he sought Schumer's concurrence, which was granted. However, it is unlikely that the Squad members will attend. Additionally, Biden lacks the authority to influence this matter.


by metsandfinsfan k

In my professional opinion, it appears that Johnson had the authority to act independently, but he sought Schumer's concurrence, which was granted. However, it is unlikely that the Squad members will attend. Additionally, Biden lacks the authority to influence this matter.

I think technically Biden could block anyone from entering the country , for any reason.

Once legally in the USA i don't think he can do anything yes (other that ordering his removal from the country , that is)


by metsandfinsfan k

In my professional opinion, it appears that Johnson had the authority to act independently, but he sought Schumer's concurrence, which was granted. However, it is unlikely that the Squad members will attend. Additionally, Biden lacks the authority to influence this matter.

What professional opinion do you have?

How come your profession allows you to say “in my professional opinion” ? Because you’re reviewing lesson plans?


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