Israel/Palestine thread

Huge news. I hope they can lock that in and get others to help, pretty much the best thing for everyone.

About time too - they need to kick the IDF the **** out of there. Better still send UN peacekeeping forces in.

I've said this would happen
Saudi will be involved too

DBF yes anti Israel lies from unconfirmed social media is still allowed unfortunately. But there are a few good posters left

But i agree with you; most of the world realizes israel is not in the wrong and this thread is definitely not an accurate representation of a crossthread of America.

if the truth was something different. but it isnt. the truth is that the West and Israel lie incessantly and commit unspeakable horrors. and the truth is that Hamas and the Gazans act infinitely more principled and moral.

you should post links to this supposed story btw. I am willing to bet it isnt what you say it is. and even if Hamas executed a rival clan leader, that is not justification for the current holocaust at the hands of the USA and Israel.

I mean it's an opinion piece that uses tiny snippets of what israeli officials said to make it sound like they believe things they don't

You posted this as your proof that Israel is committing genocide? (They are not)

Wow

Is this implying that iran is not near a nuke in your opinion and it's a western lie?

21 sick children are being evacuated from Gaza for medical care

UNRWA ‘aided and abetted’
[I]The United Nations Relief and Works Agency “aided and abetted” Hamas’ Oct. 7 terror attack in Israel by sending $1 billion in aid to Gaza — cash that the group swiped to smuggle weapons and explosives into the country, a new federal lawsuit claimed.

UNRWA has continued to send money from its bank account in Manhattan into the war-torn territory to fund schools, hospitals and pay staffers despite knowing that Hamas has been able to siphon part of the cash to fund terror attacks, the suit charged.

“Hamas did not carry out these atrocities without assistance,” reads a complaint filed Monday in Manhattan federal court by around 100 Israeli plaintiffs, including survivors of the Oct.7 attack.

Ny post

first evacuations since May if I am not mistaken

source: the same people that have been lying for decades

WASHINGTON — The United States characterized Hamas’s last response to Israel’s proposal for a ceasefire and hostage deal in Gaza earlier this month as a rejection of that offer for the first time Tuesday, as Washington appeared to harden its rhetoric against the terror group.

Hamas on June 11 said a proposal laid out by US President Joe Biden and backed by Israel did not meet its demand for a complete end to the war in Gaza, responding to the offer with significant amendments that mediators have struggled to bridge. Israel has insisted it will fight till Hamas is destroyed over its devastating October 7 attack on the country.

A

The terror group “came back several weeks ago and rejected the proposal that was on the table,” US State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller said during a press briefing Tuesday.

“They gave us a written response that rejected the proposal put forward by Israel, that President Biden had outlined, that the United Nations Security Council and countries all around the world had endorsed,” he added, calling it a “written rejection and counter-proposal that came from Hamas.”

The comment marked the first time that a US official had publicly gone so far. To date, only Jerusalem has branded the Hamas response as a rejection. US Secretary of State Antony Blinken two weeks ago criticized Hamas’s counter-proposal as including changes that are “not workable,” but insisted the gaps were not insurmountable.
Egyptian and Qatari mediators have been in contact with Hamas over the past two weeks in an attempt to bridge the gaps with Israel.

The source says that there is a lawsuit
You are doubting that?

Excellent

Fine the post is lying

Hamas wants to end the war. Israel wants to continue killing. somehow this is supposed to make Hamas look in the wrong.

So back to the 30 pager on the Day After produced by academics who looked at Germany, Japan, Iraq-Isis, and Afghanistan. This is what the non-partisan data based approach shows you need to move on from the Hamas regime towards peace in a day after:

A) "total defeat" of Hamas, which is defined very specifically as:

1- Loss of territory . Hamas is no longer sovereign in Gaza. This is akin to what happened in Germany, Japan, Iraq etc
2- Loss of control. Hamas can't administer even behind the scenes. So for example the Hezbollah-Lebanon model simply can't work
3- Public Trials to senior Hamas perpetrators

So it's not the defeat of the ideology. But it's replacing Hamas with a completely different regime in control of the territory. This total defeat isn't just military, it's political. You need to foster a viable political alternative.

B) In short, 2 state.

The Palestinians need to see their peace, stability, and self-governance on the horizon. They need the motivation to help move towards a better life through this transformation. And it's not surprising that Egypt and UAE in the security guarantee to want to define this as a future target. It HAS to be included as a goal.

C) Deradicaization

This takes place by reforming the educational, religious and media systems in Gaza (which is what the Saudis did). The authors say the Israelis can't be anywhere near this. This is a point where the allyship of moderate Arab partners is needed/mandartory. The Emirates also showed this is very possible.

D) You can't pull the Afghanistan move with a hard evacuation date. That puts a target out there for Hamas to hit. The process will have an undefined timeframe to help protest the fresh system. This process is going to take time and patience on everyone's part. It can't be rushed.

E) Germany and Japan preserved SOME of the hierarchy of leadership in defeat (they just operated under new ideas). Iraq and Afghanistan purged too much. You need a just middle. You lose the population if the cuts are too deep. Japan preserved the Emperor for example, and the Americans worked with him (obviously I'm assuming Sinwar won't get that treatment).

F) You can't run Gaza with "exiles"

G) We know from history that it will be very hard for a new government to form in Gaza without substantial external help. Gaza won't "figure itself out". So there will need to be a period of non-Palestinian rule by a combination of nations (ideally with moderate Arab allies). It is best if it's not Israel. The issue there is if nobody else volunteers. But it sounds like others will hopefully. The local population must be treated with dignity and respect. It can't be harsh. The goal is a move to local structures as they arise.

That's the sum of it. We'll see how much is followed, but given that it's the framework for the best possible outcome based on a lot of real life examples of success and failure, I expect they'll try to follow most of it. The costs in lives and time to not follow it is just too great. It's very encouraging that the Israeli and American political systems have been reviewing it in detail since it was published.

Can you explain what this paragraph means?

“So it's not the defeat of the ideology. But it's replacing Hamas with a completely different regime in control of the territory. This total defeat isn't just military, it's political. You need to foster a viable political alternative.”

There are still Nazis living in Germany today. But they don't run the country and they don't have an army. You will never be rid of the idea of Nazism. But you can ensure there's no country built on it.

As to the "total defeat", this isn't just done with fighting and dismantling the chokehold Hamas has on life in Gaza. You have to look towards fostering some sort of political system there that can replace Hamas. And as per the other points, it can't be people who aren't from there, they'll never be credible. It has to be Gazans, under the protection of people who will keep Hamas from slitting their throats. So this allyship we learned about in the news in the last 24h is a big step for example.

Egypt wants two state commitment and UAE wants US lead.

This isn't so much of a commitment as "maybe if you promise this is going to work and we'll tag along."

It’s propaganda that keeps the IDF bombing Palestine for longer because people think that a solution is at hand, so might as well let them do their thing and work it out

infuriating that anyone would think this is possible

we did it folks!

Of course it's possible
Muslim citizens of israel are treated with dignity and respect
When both sides start respecting one another fully true peace can occur
Even if you think "israelis" aren't capable of compassion

Hamas wants to end the war while staying in power with no consequences

Now that the heredi have to serve in the military , I wonder if they will sue over the muslim druze and bedoin not having to serve

the people that bombed Dresden were not inculcated with hate towards Germans (or even Nazis) for multiple generations.

its more like saying, we must respect the Native Americans circa 1850.

seems this way at least on some level

esp this part

"Hamas" are the people who run all of the civilian services. they are just setting a premise that its ok to bomb all of the people distributing aid, working civil security ie as police, picking up garbage, running the health department, working as paramedics, fixing roads.

its really nefarious stuff.