Israel/Palestine thread

Btw, most rational people have been operating under the assumption that there was never much chance of bringing all of the hostages back safely. Which shows why it’s so important to prevent it from happening again and in the first place. It’s basically a miracle that they were able to save any hostages at all.

Does history dismiss it when you're dealing with one team that does holy war?

Most of what I was talking about happened during the Cold War under Kissinger's influence, where the US was able to broker ceasefires that brought the ME into the American sphere of influence at the expense of the Soviet Union.

However, it is unclear how much forcing Israel to ceasefire and give back land and keep kicking the can down the road helped Israel in the long run, or truly helped the Arab nations/militias fighting Israel; which have largely remained dysfunctional in the aftermath.

The Al Hindi interview posted itt and other sources revealed that normal Gazans joined in the Oct 7 killing spree when the border wall was knocked down. It’s silly to think that the Israeli’s safety isn’t being assured through deterrence.

Subtle

Perhaps this post is unnecessarily uncharitable, so I would like to reframe it. Let us say there is increasingly low belief that Palestinians and Israelis can ever live side by side peacefully, and violent measures are therefor necessary. And this attitude makes Israel and Israelis generally less inclined to allow themselves to be surrounded, threatened and attacked on all sides by hostile parties.

That is the existential threat that netanyahu is increasing for israel.

You can ignore that it's the violent measures that cause the attitudes but in reality it's a vicious cycle. Absolute folly.

The problem with this argument is Israel's enemies punish it for peace, and the West is mostly agnostic about this. And again, refusing to acknowledge this is a giant hole in the West's approach to the problem.

Your argument is basically that if Israel responds less forcefully and disproportionately when its enemies attack it, thing will work out better for Israel in the long run. But just because this sounds good on paper, it still has to actually be true for it to work.

Israel disengaging at the request of the West and allowing bad actors such as Hamas and Hezbollah to militarize the border, build up forces, and threaten and eventually attack Israel cant be what happens when Israel does what the West orders them too.

For example, China recently hosted some Palestinian summit ostensibly to get Fatah and Hamas to get along. On paper sounds great, right? However, in reality what this could mean is China is trying to secure contracts to rebuild Palestinian infrastructure destroyed by the war (on the dime of the West and Gulf States of course) and to secure those contracts they are very likely to help Hamas rebuild the terror tunnel infrastructure and supply them with advanced war materials.

The MSM was quiet on this because it didn't fit the narrative, but Israel claimed it caught 2 Chinese engineers in Hamas terror tunnels at the beginning of the war, and there is ample evidence China helped build the tunnels and has been quietly directly supplying Hamas for their war machine.

If/When the fighting ends the new reality cant be outside actors like China and Iran rushing in to help Hamas rebuild the war machine (at the expense of the West) so we go right back to the status quo. But unfortunately, this is the likely outcome as Western agnosticism towards Palestinian bad behavior that keeps the vicious cycle going is just as big a part of the problem as Israeli aggression; but the West just refuses to acknowledge this.

The west isn't remotaly agnostic. It has taken a monumentally monstrous campaign by netanyahu to make the west even question it's support for israel.

But we have no choice to question our support when the policies are so monstrous ('disproportionate' as you put it so mildly). In addition as the post you made points out, countiies cannot see a peaceful solution. In addition netanyahu is enabling the terrorist organisation as part of a vicious cycle.

This has greatly increased the existential risk to israel. It is madness.

I keep saying the West ignoring Palestinian militant bad behavior is part of the problem, and you keep responding by completely ignoring Palestinian militant bad behavior. If the West policy moving forward is to keep writing blank checks for actors like Hamas to build their propaganda and war machine, and look the other way while they arm and attack Israel; Israel is not going to forever just sit back and watch it happen indefinitely. They will respond, even if it means losing Western support.

When this round of fighting eventually ends, Hamas is going to want to rebuild the war machine. And it looks like the CCP (and of course the IRI) is going to facilitate this, especially if they can get the West and gulf states to pay them to do so. If the West just sits back and watches and keeps writing blank checks, nothing is going to get better.

And everyone but the US pledging unconditional support of UNRWA/Hamas moving forward is an ominous start.

alternatively

but massive lols at the Chinese engineers.

Nobody gave a **** because the declaration has no meat whatsoever.

It's just not true. In the Uk for example, we support Israel with arms, intelligence etc even now. Hamas and hezbullah are proscribed terrorist organisations. Iran is the eenemy.

Netnayahu will risk losing western support and non western support. He is enabling the terroists more. He will risk it all and I dont doubt any consequences will somehow be everybody elses fault.

I would not say that Israel is at present just sitting back and watching.

its an absurd summary of events. Israel has been a criminal apartheid regime for decades and Dun will tell you that they are doing peace and appeasement.

They sat back and watched for decades. Now they aren’t.

Also hilarious to read that killing terrorists is now enabling them but giving them cash and weapons isn’t. Some really high level thinking on display here.

Wasn't the estimate of the invading force like 4,000? How many of these were normal Gazans? 1,000?
1,000 out of 1 million (men).

vote genocide no matter who usa#1

Literally doing the meme.