Israel/Palestine thread

In an ideal world it's an Arab-Muslim country that aligns with the Western world as I think, and this is kinda primitive but what ever, they will ''respect'' an Arab-Muslim regime more.

I think this fundamentally misunderstands their cause

Did I not literally highlight your post saying ''Hamas needs to be eliminated'' and said I agree?

How am I balking at the idea if I agree with it?

I really don't think anyone but Victor and a handful of other insane people argue that for peace to happen Hamas has to go.

for peace to happen the USA needs to go.

You are criticizing Israel for destroying Hamas because it'll just create more Hamas, are you not? Israel is eliminating Hamas, so what is your issue?

Love how in a previous post you explain the steps to peace, which I agree with, which fully acknowledges the fact we're dealing with a radicalized oppressed population that needs to be deradicalized and then a post later you laugh at this.

But you're right, most people wouldn't prefer peace over slaughter. I apologize for even bringing something as crazy as peace up.

How would we do this? Disband the USA?

THEY HAVE ALREADY TRIED NOT FLATTENING GAZA AND IT RESULTS IN 10/7, FFS. NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THEIR METHODS. THEY CARE ABOUT NOT HAVING ANOTHER 10/7. It's your own cognitive failings that prevent you from accurately blaming HAMAS for the "flattening" of Gaza. Sorry, but the Band-Aid has to be ripped off in order to remove Hamas. Your alternative suggestions of *checks notes* literally nothing tenable or tangible, like chez, are duly noted.

I'm laughing at your inability to understand that an oppressed population can still be problematic and need to be handled with adult gloves. They believe their peace will come when they destroy Israel. That's the point you're missing (selectively, it seems). They are oppressed by Hamas, but the majority of the population still agrees on destroying Israel. Israel does more than any military in recently recorded history to minimize civilian casualties. I am out of cares to give about the radicalized population who work in the opposite lane. Destroy and rebuild. You aren't a humanitarian for protesting Israel and offering nothing helpful in place.

I see where the disconnect is. You think deradicalizing/reschooling a population means killing them all. I don't.

I apologize for the confusion.

edit: the never ending editing of your posts is hilarious btw.

The disconnect is that I understand that civilians may die when terrorists embed themselves in civilian infrastructure. That's the natural result of Israel's justifiable pursuit in killing the terrorists turning their population into human shields. You seem to think that's avoidable in some way. Or even a more indefensibly stupid step further: if it's unavoidable, Israel must do something other than incur collateral damage. Your stance rewards terrorism, but your head is so far up your ass, you think it's Israel creating more terrorists.

You offer no viable alternatives, but foolishly believe you're perched within moral superiority. Like chez, your stance seems to be, "I don't like war!" You aren't morally superior. You're a useful idiot to a genocidal regime and your own logic eats itself for all to see. They're both a radicalized population, hellbent on eliminating Jews... but are somehow simultaneously peaceful and wanting zero conflict.

No phresh. It's true I dont like war but I'm giving you the credit of also not liking war.

We haven't has a moral debate at all. Our disagreement so far has been purely what's best for Israel. Israel need a politcal settlement as much as anybody else. I dont begin to dismiss how hard it is but netanyahu is a disaster for Israel. I do mention monstrosity which has a moral dimension but we haven't talked about that part.

You're the one who's attempting moral superiorty if you claim that disagreeing with you about netanyhu actions is something to do with anti-semitism.

The disconnect is that you're just another warmonger spouting heroic word salad from your chair in the middle of bum**** nowhere. On the one hand you acknowledge Gazans aren't Hamas on the other hand Gazans want to eliminate Jews making them Hamas.

I get it, as long as every Gazan is a member of Hamas, you get to justify killing them in large numbers.

Also I don't think someone like you should be the judge of who is and isn't moral when you constantly need to convince people that Israel is ''justified'' in doing what it's doing. 'Any man who must say, "I am the King", is no true king.'

Look at the reach of uncle Bibi. He has people repeating his sentences on poker forums now.

Imagine being so ****ed in the head that not wanting innocent people to die is considered a bad thing.

The next 10/7 will be a direct response to Israeli belligerence and could be on US soil. Blowback is a real thing.

no

shortly after oct 7, hamas announced that the the next attack against israeli civilians was in the planning phase, and that it would make the events of oct 7 look like it was a rehearsal for the main event

if hamas manage to do another oct 7 - which seems unlikely given that most of them are dead, their tunnel network is shrinking, and their ability to arm themselves has been heavily degraded - but if they do, its because they were always planning to repeat and enhance the events of oct 7

Can't criticize the method if you don't have a better method with >= chances of success, unless you really don't care too much about the goal that is.

Not really hard: eradicating Hamas at any cost is a moral imperative of the first order (ie one which surpasses all others). Which other methods do you have in mind to achieve that?

And Phresh, Boids, and Lucium will put their fingers in their ears and pretend like cause and effect only works in one direction like they have with 10/7.

You're not wrong, but the events since 10/7 have to have been a great recruiting tool for international terrorism, nonetheless.

? if palestinians terrorists manage to stage a terrorist attack on US soil that's on the US ofc. The USA could have helped eradicating terror in full in the area much more.

We could reach a point where they can't wage terror because they don't exist anymore, have no place to train or start an attack from worldwide, and so on. We did with al qaida basically, we did it a lot of times.

This is a false narrative, there are more than 1 billion muslims, there will always be recruits available no matter what we do, and our role is killing all terrorist organization members, and structures, not spending money to try to decrease the chance of a specific muslims to radicalize, given you can't bring it to 0 regardless of your actions.

You are exculpating terrorism, and denying that the only way to guarantee evil people can't damage you, is to kill all of them.

nah, its a side show, the actual and enduring recruiting tool is the same as it has been for the last 80 odd years: jews have a state in the middle east

this makes certain people very upset indeed, and a fair few will go so far as to throw themselves into the pyre over it, to which i say rip bozo

Man, so many delusional people ITT. It's wild. People advocating Israel play nice with the terrorists who want to kill them so they'll, what, more respectfully kill them or something? They shot 10-month-old babies in their parents arms. You calling for ceasefires and admonishing Israel is not the moral flex you seem to think. It's delusional and pathetic, like suggesting I'm a warmonger for understanding Israel's right to DEFEND their lives.

But I can only lead you horses to the water of religious fanaticism so many times before I grow tired of it. They. Will. Always. Keep. Trying. To. Destroy. Israel. It is rooted in their Islamic faith. You are acting like we need to barter or entertain genocidal terrorists. It's idiotic.

Anyway, I'm done running in circles with the same few. Betraisefold, you're oblivious, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Feel free to ping me when you've come up with a plan for Israel that doesn't involve killing the genocidal terrorists. Cheers.

It's not about playing nice with the terrorists or extremists

I do think we should do our best to defeat them. Maybe that's too moral or somefing

Btw i don't think islamic terror against humanity of all kinds would stop completly even if Israel would cease to exist as a jew-majority country.

9 11 didn't happen because Israel exists. Madrid 2004 bombings didn't happen because Israel exists. Priests didn't get butchered in France because Israel exists.

The Bataclan massacre didn't happen because Israel exists. The genocide of hindus in Bangladesh today , by islamic terrorists, isn't happening because Israel exists.

Boko Haram doesn't assassinate a ton of nigerian people (both christians, and moderate muslims) because Israel exists.

Isil terrorists didn't kill christian tourists in egypt because Israel exists.

Shia muslims in Iraq weren't killed in large numbers by Isil terrorists because Israel exists.

"Islamic state" terrorists in Pakistan didn't kill 50+ conservative muslims in 2023 because Israel exists.

ISIS didn't kill like 100 iranians in jan 2024 because Israel exists, nor 150 russians in Moscow some months ago.

Is the picture clear enough? need more data points?

yes and what do you propose other than extermination, to do our best, given how much they made it clear they want to kill everyone who isn't like them?