Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
so apparently a bunch of people have resigned their positions: the iof ground forces commander, the head of the military intelligence directorate, the commander of the gaza division, and the commander of unit 8200 military intelligence all "quit" (the last guy might be dead, unclear at this point). nobody wants to work anymore smdh
seems like it's encouraged tbh
I esp like the idea that Baruch Goldstein was bad and should be condemned while the current Minister of National Security has a picture of him in his office. proly means nothing.
The major international human rights organizations don't think it's absurd. HRW, Amnesty, B'tselem have all issued very detailed reports.
Explain again how you steal land that is indigenous to your people for over 4k years?
750,000 Palestinians were expelled during the Nakba. They held (hold) deeds to the property issued by the Ottomans and the British. The Jews 2,000 years ago did not own all of Palestine, it was a mixed community, just as old Jerusalem still is. And resorting to an ancient biblical claim is odd for a guy who insists he isn't religious.
Communist NGOs agree with the communist poster so...
Seems pretty obvious that is a correct assessment of the situation; and a rationale idea of how to deal with it. Everyone would be better off (the people of Palestine, Israel, Lebanon, Iran) with no Hamas, Hezbollah or IRI. These are just horrible groups with horrible ideas that are dragging everyone else down with their violent nihilism.
The major international human rights organizations don't think it's absurd. HRW, Amnesty, B'tselem have all issued very detailed reports.750,000 Palestinians were expelled during the Nakba. They held (hold) deeds to the property issued by the Ottomans and the British. The Jews 2,000 years ago did not own all of Palestine, it was a mixed community, just as old Jerusalem still is
Some people own some deeds and are entitled to reparations if/when peace comes. Same with all the MENA Jews that had their land stolen. In neither case is "right of return" a reasonable objective. You might as well demand the US hand CA and Az back to Mexico.
Providing perverse incentives to bad actors without reasonable objectives does not get anyone anywhere. The more the rest of the world humors the Palestinian political project the more we can expect another unproductive 75 years of death and destruction, much like the last 75 years.
so apparently a bunch of people have resigned their positions: the iof ground forces commander, the head of the military intelligence directorate, the commander of the gaza division, and the commander of unit 8200 military intelligence all "quit" (the last guy might be dead, unclear at this point). nobody wants to work anymore smdh
seems like it's encouraged tbh
As expected... because they failed at protecting Israel on 10/7.
I'm not seeing any of you condemn 10/7. All I've been reading is a bunch of whataboutisms.
The major international human rights organizations don't think it's absurd. HRW, Amnesty, B'tselem have all issued very detailed reports.750,000 Palestinians were expelled during the Nakba. They held (hold) deeds to the property issued by the Ottomans and the British. The Jews 2,000 years ago did not own all of Palestine, it was a mixed community, just as old Jerusalem still is
Like I said... the international community, hasn't been very historically fair or kind to Jews.
And Ironically, Jews fled to the Ottoman Empire to escape Christian Persecution. Of course Jews weren't the only ones in the area. I don't think anyone claimed that.
I don't know why referencing about the Bible is odd... it has historically proven claims. I don't have to be religious to acknowledge that.
As expected... because they failed at protecting Israel on 10/7.
I'm not seeing any of you condemn 10/7. All I've been reading is a bunch of whataboutisms.
you arent gonna hear us condemn Tecumseh or Dessalines either
Seems pretty obvious that is a correct assessment of the situation; and a rationale idea of how to deal with it. Everyone would be better off (the people of Palestine, Israel, Lebanon, Iran) with no Hamas, Hezbollah or IRI. These are just horrible groups with horrible ideas that are dragging everyone else down with their violent nihilism.
Let's put on the thinking caps again... do you think people who lived under that recent trauma, would be OK with committing those same atrocities to other people?
Yes? That's how generational trauma usually works?
I don't know why referencing about the Bible is odd... it has historically proven claims. I don't have to be religious to acknowledge that.
It's odd because the Bible starts off with a talking snake and ends with some wild seven-headed dragon or some ****. But go ahead, use it as a history textbook, I'm sure that will work out swell.
Like I said... the international community, hasn't been very historically fair or kind to Jews.
You are simply smearing these organizations with an antisemitic brush. Let's see some proof that the apartheid reports of Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International contain classic antisemitism. And you even smeared B'tselem. Do you even know who they are?
These groups produced highly-researched studies showing how the WB is under apartheid, and you just waved them away with a lame smear. That's weak.
I esp like the idea that Baruch Goldstein was bad and should be condemned while the current Minister of National Security has a picture of him in his office. proly means nothing.
It goes with the decor. Simply an aesthetic choice. It would be morally wrong and ahistorical to read any more into it.
I think one of the key problems in this dialogue we are all having is that many on the “anti-war” side seem to think that Israel should have just taken the murder of over a thousand people on the chin without any sort of response. That standard is just impossible. So no one takes them seriously about their supposed humanitarian concerns because it only goes one way.
Some are even going so far as Victor as saying it was a legitimate military attack.
Of course no one wants to listen to you guys on the pro-Israel side. Why would we? You want to unilaterally disarm.
You are simply smearing these organizations with an antisemitic brush. Let's see some proof that the apartheid reports of Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International contain classic antisemitism. And you even smeared B'tselem. Do you even know who they are?These groups produced highly-researched studies showing how the WB is under apartheid, and you just waved them away with
No, I'm not. Like I said not that long ago in here, there's some fkd up sht happening in the WB - on both sides. I've listened and read many reports by actual intellectual Israeli's that say the claims are extremely overstated. Considering the history, I'm concluding that the truth is somewhere in the middle... you know.. like a fair-minded person does.
I've also condemned the occupation in the WB.
You on the other hand, haven't said anything other than Israel is 100% at fault.... so...
whenever israel agrees to a cease fire, they still kill hundreds of civilians every few years
do you acknowledge this?
who is more dangerous, hamas or the IDF?
Israel is a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-denominational democracy besieged by radial Muslim forces (originally on all sides, now just on most sides). Israel's enemies are funded by powerful Middle East despots and their antisemitic European lackeys.
Hamas is a brutal dictatorship based on radical Muslim ideals who allow only one culture and only one religion. Their stated goal, and reason to exist, is the destruction of Israel and the taking of their land.
do you acknowledge this?
WHOSE IDEALS ARE MORE DANGEROUS, HAMAS OR ISRAEL?
there is absolutely no indication that Israel would end the occupation for "peace". we know this bc Hamas has offered this very thing on many occasions. they said they will end hostilities for the 67 borders and end of occupation. I am not flippant towards Hamas. its the opposite actually. I actually read what they say and learn about their goals. thats why I push back on
Hamas has never offered peace with Israel. A truce, perhaps, a temporary cessation of hostilities, for sure. But an actual peace deal requires for Hamas to agree that Israel has the permanent right to exist. Hamas has never agreed to that. NEVER.
You live in a fantasy world about the motives of Hamas. You have a draconian and hostile opinion of Israel's motives. You make statements that you could disprove on your own with the most minimal amount of investigation. Assuming you are not a troll, you and those who think like you are why Israel can't back down.
whenever israel agrees to a cease fire, they still kill hundreds of civilians every few years
do you acknowledge this?
who is more dangerous, hamas or the IDF?
Do you acknowledge that hamas periodically sends thousands and thousands of rockets at Israel, so much so that they have to have a literal antimissile defense system subsidized by the United States in order to prevent random Israeli citizens from being indiscriminately attacked with rockets?
I mean in what world would any nation accept such an attack without attempting some kind of retaliation on those people doing that. And if they do it out of civilian infrastructure is Israel supposed to just take it on the chin and let them do this?
So, from what I can tell, this podcast is not as popular as some are making it out to be. 1500 Instagram followers, 900 on Twitter. However, they do have some mainstream connections. These are detailed later in the first Twitter thread. But, for example, one of their guests was Israel's ambassador to the US.
In any case, it is pretty shocking to hear them talking like this openly.
Israel is a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-denominational democracy besieged by radial Muslim forces (originally on all sides, now just on most sides). Israel's enemies are funded by powerful Middle East despots and their antisemitic European lackeys.Hamas is a brutal dictatorship based on radical Muslim ideals who allow only one culture and only one religion. Their stated
Hamas has never offered peace with Israel. A truce, perhaps, a temporary cessation of hostilities, for sure. But an actual peace deal requires for Hamas to agree that Israel has the permanent right to exist. Hamas has never agreed to that. NEVER. You live in a fantasy world about the motives of Hamas. You have a draconian and hostile opinion of Israel's motives.
right...
