Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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30597 Replies
Look what just popped up today. An article describing Hasbara in the words of its participants.
Spielgovel later recalled:
It occurred to me then that the Israelis were doing a good job at training their military people, and they were doing a relatively good job at training their diplomatic corps. But they weren’t spending any time training information officers, people who could present Israel’s case to embassies and TV anchormen around the world. Over the years, I made this a personal cause celebre.”
As Judith Elizur, an expert in “communications” from Tel Aviv’s Hebrew University, explained:
Because the ‘power dimension’ of Israel’s image is so problematic, it seems to me that Hasbara must concentrate on reinforcing other aspects of Israel that have a positive appeal – medicine, agriculture, science, archaeology…We have been too preoccupied with extinguishing political brush fires. We need to devote more of our resources to long-range image-making. We must recreate a multi-dimensional image of Israel which will assure us the basic support we require in times of crisis.”
To borrow a phrase from a recent BBC TV drama (Ludwig, starring David Mitchell), 'That's really not the legal loophole you think it is.'
It’s just different situations, there’s no loophole to go around. The solution isn’t going to be like South Africa’s solution.
It’s just different situations, there’s no loophole to go around. The solution isn’t going to be like South Africa’s solution.
Different situations that have a bunch of commonalities in the West Bank which Israel effectively controls. Jewish and non-Jewish Israelis also don’t have exactly the same rights in Israel but I wouldn’t say that rises to the level of apartheid there.
Different situations that have a bunch of commonalities in the West Bank which Israel effectively controls. Jewish and non-Jewish Israelis also don’t have exactly the same rights in Israel but I wouldn’t say that rises to the level of apartheid there.
There’s a bunch of commonalities between apartheid South Africa and how Native Americans are treated in the US, doesn’t mean that the solutions are the same.
Also it just makes a huge difference as to how exactly the state of affairs came to be. Israel has agreed in principle to a two state solution, especially in the original partition plan which Israel accepted and Palestine rejected. They also had the opportunity as recently as 2006 to build a functional, independent government in Gaza and instead chose to elect Hamas. The amount of self-inflicted wounds on the Palestinian side is astounding.
none of that is true and none of it makes sense. its actually insulting to continue to peddle such falsehoods.
Oh man, my post was deleted. Much worse than an infraction. :<
eta: Oh wait, lo siento mucho, I was thinking of another thread.
He's just proving that most Israelis are of recent European or American ancestry and the whole far right blood and soil thing is 100% racist bullshiit to justify a huge land grab and apartheid against the Arabs.
The fanatic settlers in the West Bank are land grabbing at the direction of God. The rest of Israel holds onto land for safety reasons. For example, there are areas of the West Bank that have the high ground. It would be foolish of Israel to give up this land. Also, pre 1967 there were holy places for Jews that they were not allowed to go to because they were under Arab control. Why would they give up these places now? Why is it that Arabs don't allow Jews in certain areas but Jews allow Arabs everywhere?
Dunno man. My two Jewish daughters have both participated in protests against the war in Israel. One of them lives in Oakland. Neither of them have felt that the protests generally or any people specifically have been antisemitic towards them. It's not like they are orthodox or anything, but neither of them hide being Jewish and our last name is not like one of the most common Jewish names, but pretty much every Jew and a lot of non-Jews recognize it as a Jewish name.
Rosenbergawitz?
You don't have to say if I guessed right.
The whole conservative population is so fearful and thinks the world if full of no-go zones where barbarians are just going to tear you to shreds because you're white or male or straight or Christian or, in this case, Jewish, but it's not like that.
There are absolutely no go zones. I argued this many years ago with someone who said he could walk anywhere in this country safely.
You think he brought his 5 year old son to be aggressively yelled at and threatened? It is possible, but more likely he was caught unawares, but decided to stick up for himself anyways. Some, but not most, people are just wired that way. This is probably not the first person that was discriminated against and bullied out of that shop, but the majority of people (myself included) would just meekly leave.
If I was Jewish and encountered this owner it would have turned very ugly. That being said, I am very aware of my surrounding at all times and would never have been there in the first place. The dad was an idiot for putting his child into danger like that. I'm guessing he knew what he was doing and was trying to stir things up. The owner is clearly a hot head and probably looks for trouble as well.
There are absolutely no go zones. I argued this many years ago with someone who said he could walk anywhere in this country safely.
You argued it with me about a freeway exit in San Diego. After that I took my then 17yo daughter there and had lunch a couple blocks from the exit discovering one of the best tacos I've ever had in my life. Turned out to be quite a well known place.
If I was Jewish and encountered this owner it would have turned very ugly. That being said, I am very aware of my surrounding at all times and would never have been there in the first place. The dad was an idiot for putting his child into danger like that. I'm guessing he knew what he was doing and was trying to stir things up. The owner is clearly a hot head and probably looks for trouble as well.
Of course you wouldn't be there. You'd be scared to be anywhere in the whole city of Oakland.
Could you imagine the cognitive dissonance it takes to be a white American telling someone thousands of miles away to give back land, when they are sitting on "stolen land" themselves (under much more morally indefensible egregious circumstances than Jews in Israel) and aren't aren't giving **** back to anyone. It really is breathtaking hypocrisy of the highest order.
How would you like it if millions of people in Asia started protesting for you to go back to Poland, and calling for and celebrating violence against you and your family?
You argued it with me about a freeway exit in San Diego. After that I took my then 17yo daughter there and had lunch a couple blocks from the exit discovering one of the best tacos I've ever had in my life. Turned out to be quite a well known place.
I'm happy you guy's got out of there ok.
Originally Posted by Bill Haywood
Oooh look. The settler-colonist likes slumming with the natives.
--Anyways, the point is this kind of language and activism, on top of being hugely hypocritical, isn't helping anyone. I think if progressive leftists put way more energy into actually trying to materially help people, and way less energy on moral outrage and supporting bad actors making everything worse (Hamas, PIJ, Hezbollah, etc.), everyone will be much better for it.
Originally Posted by Bill Haywood
Oooh look. The settler-colonist likes slumming with the natives.
--Anyways, the point is this kind of language and activism, on top of being hugely hypocritical, isn't helping anyone. I think if progressive leftists put way more energy into actually trying to materially help people, and way less energy on moral outrage and supporting bad actors making everything worse (Hamas, PIJ, Hezbollah, etc.), everyone will be much better for it.
All this time I thought my plan of posting on this forum while watching YT shorts and eating Greek Yogurt was optimal. Thanks.
I wouldn't go into a place where I knew I wasn't wanted. I certainly wouldn't put my child into harms way just to prove a point.
You're talking about going to Oakland? I don't know if anyone in Oakland wants you there, but they don't necessarily not want you there. They probably haven't thought about it much.
It is just breaking so I dont have any details now, but there is a news story in Israel of evidence that Netanyahu's office may have been intentionally leaking information with the purpose of derailing a potential hostage deal. Which should probably surprise no one at this point.
