Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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30595 Replies
Kinda incredible how all it took for Biden to go back to his true self was for Trump to win the elections
The US carried out a series of strikes against Houthi targets in Yemen late Saturday evening, according to a US defense official, targeting numerous weapons storage facilities across at least three locations.
The facilities housed advanced conventional weapons used to target ships in the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden, said the official, who added that the US used fighter jets to carry out the attack.
The Iran-backed Houthis have for months targeted ships in the Red Sea, one of the world’s busiest waterways, calling the attacks a response to Israel’s war in Gaza against Hamas.
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The american sheriff is back in town and it is bipartisan
It's kind of like the fans who cheered that Deshaun Watson was hurt. Can you blame them? Can you really blame the Israeli fans for shouting against a country that would like to see them dead?
Yes, you very much can blame them. You don't dishonour a minute's silence for victim's of a disaster I really don't gaf if they're miffed at the victims' government. That was utter scumbaggery on the fans' part. Don't engage in apologia for despicable behaviour. It was in no way justified and you shouldn't even be trying to go there, which is quite shameful and sad that you are. Absolutely obscene and utterly inexcusable behaviour from the Israeli fans.
Re "islamism isn't genetic"
It is widely agreed that religion has biological foundations—that belief in the supernatural, obedience to authority or susceptibility to ceremony and ritual depend on genetically based features of the human brain [1–6]
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PM....
That doesn't mean that there is a "Muslim gene", rather than there are sets of genes that heavily predispose you to the behavioral attitudes required to actually be very religious. You then end up with whatever radical form of religion is common around you of course.
And some populations will have those genetic predispositions more than others (same works for the totality of behavioral traits and populations)
It's kind of like the fans who cheered that Deshaun Watson was hurt. Can you blame them? Can you really blame the Israeli fans for shouting against a country that would like to see them dead?
Also I feel your argument is disingenuous unless you can plausibily cite where the Spanish people actually wish to see Israelis dead
I am not sure about the claim. I think that democrats as a party are very far from being >50% propal.
I was elaborating as if the claim was true, that a growing portion of people with clear leftwing preferences were so strongly committed to the Palestine topic that they prefer to have the right win than to vote democrat if democrats are pro Israel as they currently are.
If the above (which is what you claim) is true, then democrats can never win nationally
Sorry, missed this response.
I'm not understanding your logic. In the poll 7% of Democrats under 30 have a strong pro-Israel position, whereas 47% have a strong pro-Palestine.
Given that old people die and young people take over, and given that more fence-sitters are likely to go over to pro-Palestine, how will it be possible for the Democrats to win elections in the future with a pro-Israel candidate?
Sorry, missed this response.
I'm not understanding your logic. In the poll 7% of Democrats under 30 have a strong pro-Israel position, whereas 47% have a strong pro-Palestine.
Given that old people die and young people take over, and given that more fence-sitters are likely to go over to pro-Palestine, how will it be possible for the Democrats to win elections in the future with a pro-Israel candidate?
It's not a mathematical certainty, but usually people get more conservative when they age. You are assuming a propal 23 years old will stay the same even at 48. There is no reason to assume that.
Also things can change in israel/palestine itself, it's not even obvious there will be anything you can call palestine with a lot of palestinians 10 years from now left.
pretty sure spanish people don't want to genocide the jews, but some people in the spanish government went with "from the river to the sea"
Which has sfa to do with those who perished in the floods. The Israeli fans disrespecting the minutes silence was obscene and there's no excuse- none at all whatsoever- for their despicable contemptible behaviour. And that certainly doesn't justify attacks on them either, but they went beyond the pale by not observing the minute's silence.
lazio play ajax in amsterdam on 12 december
some lazio fans will sing songs about mussolini, a few will do hitler salutes, some will cause property damage, some will go further
i hereby predict that there will not be a coordinated violent response from locals against lazio fans on 12 december
Which has sfa to do with those who perished in the floods. The Israeli fans disrespecting the minutes silence was obscene and there's no excuse- none at all whatsoever- for their despicable contemptible behaviour. And that certainly doesn't justify attacks on them either, but they went beyond the pale by not observing the minute's silence.
I was answering the topic about why Spain isn't held in very good consideration and why accusing the spanish government (not the people) of heavily pro-Hamas bias isn't without basis.
As for the "minute of silence", I think it's a bad thing to do in general, hypocritical theater, but guests should respect local traditions and rules in general so i don't condone disregarding the minute of silence (but it isn't a big deal at all).
lazio play ajax in amsterdam on 12 december
some lazio fans will sing songs about mussolini, a few will do hitler salutes, some will cause property damage, some will go further
i hereby predict that there will not be a coordinated violent response from locals against lazio fans on 12 december
It appears to have escaped your notice that Italy isn't committing a genocide against a Dutch population it has subjugated, and that if it was then Italian football fans chanting racist anti-Dutch chants and wishing death on Dutch people in Amsterdam probably would be met with a violent response that you would be more understanding of.
Your analogies are useless.
right, so lets put aside the bullshit that the coordinated violence was in response to their actions, as has been repeated over and over itt.
it was not. they were attacked because they are israeli, and i have a problem with that.
if Lazio fans run amok in the city attacking cab drivers, chanting racist songs, and vandalizing property then they might well face a response.
also, who do you think those Lazio fans support in this conflict bc I have a hunch, and I could be wrong ofc, that they dont really like Palestinians.
if Lazio fans run amok in the city attacking cab drivers, chanting racist songs, and vandalizing property then they might well face a response.
also, who do you think those Lazio fans support in this conflict bc I have a hunch, and I could be wrong ofc, that they dont really like Palestinians.
Italian radical neofascists are overwhelmingly pro pal. They always were since after ww2, not much out of love for arabs but because they see America as the evil empire (vs the actual european nationalist ideal they have).
Meloni lost their votes (around 1.5-2%) immediatly as soon as she made it very clear she supported Israel, Ukraine, and NATO.
This was from last year to clarify
An israeli IDF reversist saergent declared he loved italian soccer and supported Lazio.
The "curva nord", the core lazio supporter group, wrote that "A reservist who kills women and children will never be allowed to support out team" (image above).
Moderate lazio supporters disawoed that message, many others wrote stuff like "Israel shouldn't exist" and so on in support in social media.
But this is nothing new. The ultra left and the ultra right have always been anti-Israel (mainly because of anti-americanism which we call anti-atlantism). The right, because they want european nationalisms to be the only controlling force in our continent. The left because they wanted the USSR to take Italy in instead of the USA.
Now with Putin they are even more aligned, they both see Putin as a counter-american element which has to be supported against "the evil empire".
thats surprising. even more surprising that they prefer Russia to the USA. I thought these far right fascists hated Russia the most considering their ideological pedigree.
thats surprising. even more surprising that they prefer Russia to the USA. I thought these far right fascists hated Russia the most considering their ideological pedigree.
No they did only up until it was the USSR. They don't see Putin as anything related to communist Russia (and who would?)
Forza nuova (an actual neofascist party founded by an actual terrorist) is allin pro Putin
Forza Nuova has longstanding ties to other European far-right organization, including the British National Party.[37] Forza Nuova leader Roberto Fiore was once closely allied with the Ukrainian far-right Svoboda party, but following the beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian War, Forza Nuova and Fiore "made a considerable shift to the pro-Russian camp."[37] According to the Political Capital Institute, a Hungarian think tank, Forza Nuova is one of a number of Russian-backed radical right political parties in Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Force_...)
Forza Nuova is well represented in Lazio supporters groups
lazio play ajax in amsterdam on 12 december
some lazio fans will sing songs about mussolini, a few will do hitler salutes, some will cause property damage, some will go further
i hereby predict that there will not be a coordinated violent response from locals against lazio fans on 12 december
There might well be trouble, there might not. Hooligans gonna hooligan and if there is trouble and the cops baton charge them off the streets then boo-hoo for them.
I'm quite sure there was anti Semitism on display in Holland and played a part in the attacks on Israeli fans.
None of that excuses the Israeli fans not having the simple common decency to observe a measly 60 second silence for victims of a disaster.
I was answering the topic about why Spain isn't held in very good consideration and why accusing the spanish government (not the people) of heavily pro-Hamas bias isn't without basis.
As for the "minute of silence", I think it's a bad thing to do in general, hypocritical theater, but guests should respect local traditions and rules in general so i don't condone disregarding the minute of silence (but it isn't a big deal at all).
Well it is a big deal, even if you think it isn't, and it's actually a decent thing to do in general even if you think it isn't, but at least you don't condone it.
right, so lets put aside the bullshit that the coordinated violence was in response to their actions, as has been repeated over and over itt.
it was not. they were attacked because they are israeli, and i have a problem with that.
I suspect they very well may have been attacked even if they were on their best behaviour and I unequivocally condemn the attacks on them. I can also unequivocally condemn their apparent unwillingness to simply stfu for a minute to observe a silence for flood victims.
lazio play ajax in amsterdam on 12 december
some lazio fans will sing songs about mussolini, a few will do hitler salutes, some will cause property damage, some will go further
i hereby predict that there will not be a coordinated violent response from locals against lazio fans on 12 december
Their hypocrisy is limited only by your imagination.
if this was all about antisemitism then there should have been plenty of reports of attacks or threats on Amsterdam Jews. or at least one report.
