Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Israel’s war in Gaza amounts to genocide, Amnesty International report finds
A report from Amnesty International alleges that Israel’s war against Hamas in the Gaza Strip constitutes the crime of genocide under international law, the first such determination by a major human rights organisation in the 14-month-old conflict.
The 32-page report examining events in Gaza between October 2023 to July 2024, published on Thursday, found that Israel had “brazenly, continuously and with total impunity … unleashed hell” on the strip’s 2.3 million population, noting that the “atrocity crimes” against Israelis by Hamas on 7 October 2023, which triggered the war, “do not justify genocide”.
Israel has “committed prohibited acts under the Genocide Convention, namely killing, causing serious bodily or mental harm, and deliberately inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction” with the “specific intent to destroy Palestinians” in the territory, the report said.
lol how did I miss this one
you get banned on this site for using that word but Israeli media uses it seemingly without a reservation.
damn, great minds lol
Therefore, my dear legal assistant, if you had read my subsequent post you will see I said, "The Palestinians in Gaza, as a majority, would agree with Hamas doing this. This makes them enablers. They are therefore definitionally not innocent. Yes, of course there are those in Gaza who want peace and who do not support Hamas. They are the innocent victims. But they are in the minority."
All of this is of course irrelevant. As was your nonsensical response to my hypothetical in which you seem to co
You’re on the right path, and I commend you finding the humanity to admit that there are indeed innocent Palestinians.
You’re right; my response was non-sensical and I am not trolling or trying to come across as insincere in saying that. I am 100% serious. I was intentionally non-sensical because it is in my culture to respond to something that is unjust by being ridiculous or non-sensical. Sorry not sorry.
Non-sensical as the initial response may have been, I did ask a real question about checkpoints, for a real reason, which nobody seems to care about. Woe is me, I guess. I’m over it don’t worry.
The question was: how many checkpoints are there in The West Bank.
I’m not sure if you are aware of this or not, but Hamas has no control in the West Bank. So, if “all of this would go away if Hamas chose peace” we can then safely assume that if there was no Hamas at all then there would be peace, right?
Why is it then, that there are more than 600 checkpoints in the West Bank? Bonus points would have been awarded for those that knew that of those 600+, a mere 38 are between Israel and the West Bank. Why is it then, if there is no Hamas, that people who are 3rd or 4th generation Palestinian born and raised in Jerusalem have no citizenship, and are classified as residents? Meanwhile some schmuck named Joe from Brooklyn New York can land there and become a citizen within 48 hours. Why is that they are not allowed to walk or drive on the same streets as Israelis? I mean, there is no Hamas control there, so seems like there should be peace.
Spoiler
ITS BECAUSE ISRAEL HAS BEEN SUBJECTING PALESTINIANS NOT HAMAS PALESTINIANS TO APARTHEID FOR 75 ****ING YEARS THATS WHY
It truly astounds me that there are those who will say with a straight face, and with all sincerity, that Hamas and its allies should be allowed to have as its goal the destruction of Israel, and yet Gaza suffer no consequences. It would be one thing if when something tragic happens in Gaza, and pleadings are made with Israel to do more to reduce suffering, the last sentence of the pleading ended with, "but all of this would be unnecessary if Hamas chose peace over war and, since they choose war
Lastly and perhaps most interestingly, I’m not sure if you’ve kept up with the news the last few months or not, but a little while ago there was international outrage at the pitiful amounts of relief that’s been let into Gaza in the last year. You know, because Israel controls its borders and everything. Listen, I get it, they have to prohibit bombs and weapons and terrorists, not to mention chocolate and children’s toys, from getting into the hands of Hamas. Anyway, the US who has unequivocally condemned Hamas and supported Israel in any and every day possible quite literally immediately after the Oct 7th atrocity put “pressure” on the Israeli government to start allowing more aid into Gaza. I mean this is literally what you’re asking for in the post above. Unfortunately, Israel doesn’t seem to think it’s relevant or worth listening to or caring about.
It is interesting to me that people on your side of this debate always seem to have a justification for Israel’s actions no matter how ridiculous they may be. Why is that?
Justify that.
Note:
US citizens are forced to go through checkpoints over 2 million times a day, often having to remove shoes and hoodies, and have valid ID's to prove who they are. At least this is according to the TSA. Tragic. Airports should simply get rid of all checkpoints. What good do they do, anyway?
You’re absolutely right.
Curious if you know the answer to any of the following
-how many women have had to give birth at TSA due to being rejected passage based on their nationality?
-how many children have been taken into custody by TSA and held in detention for weeks without charge or trial after being accused of a crime they did not commit?
-how many people have been killed by TSA?
Thanks
It is interesting to me that people on your side of this debate always seem to have a justification for Israel’s actions no matter how ridiculous they may be. Why is that?
Justify that.
I have already answered this 100 times. So here goes 101...
It is the stated goal of Hamas and Iran to commit genocide on Israel. It is the stated goal of Hamas and Iran to push Israeli's off their land. You know, that whole "from the river to the sea" thing. It is irrelevant that they have been unsuccessful. What matters is that they continue to attack Israel, and create instability throughout the Middle East, all in the hopes the others will also turn against Israel and help them achieve their goal of destroying Israel. As far as I am concerned, everyone in Gaza is in danger of losing their life and land so long as this remains the goal of Hamas. Only Hamas can end this. Not Israel. Hamas needs to agree to an unconditional surrender (not a cease fire, a surrender), agree to give up their armed resistance PERMANENTLY, and agree to give up their goal of destroying Israel. The longer they take to do this the less there will be left of Gaza. Hamas's fault. 100%. Hamas is what is "ridiculous".
Just remember the severe destruction the allies brought on Germany and Japan. Did they stop their military operations, their killing of German and Japanese civilians, because the world said, "please stop, you're being excessive". No. The devastation only stopped when Germany and Japan agreed to an unconditional surrender, and agreed to give up their political and military ambitions. What happened after that? Both sides became close allies and have remained so to this date.
Hamas must die. Hamas must cease to exist. Israel must remain safe and secure. Or Gaza ceases to exist. There is no compromising on this.
I have already answered this 100 times. So here goes 101...
It is the stated goal of Hamas and Iran to commit genocide on Israel. It is the stated goal of Hamas and Iran to push Israeli's off their land. You know, that whole "from the river to the sea" thing. It is irrelevant that they have been unsuccessful. What matters is that they continue to attack Israel, and create instability throughout the Middle East, all in the hopes the others will also turn against Israel and help them achieve their
By this logic, dropping nuclear bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima was completely acceptable and there need not be any more questions asked. The ends justifies the means, right?
Wonder if Israel’s actions over the last 8 decades has anything to do with how we got here in the first place. Probably not, Iran is just inherently evil.
It is quite cute though, that your entire defence is based on “Hamas is evil they must die” because they think “Israel is evil and they must die.”
By this logic, dropping nuclear bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima was completely acceptable and there need not be any more questions asked. The ends justifies the means, right?
Wonder if Israel’s actions over the last 8 decades has anything to do with how we got here in the first place. Probably not, Iran is just inherently evil.
It is quite cute though, that your entire defence is based on “Hamas is evil they must die” because they think “Israel is evil and they must die.”
Hamas has stated their goal is the annihilation of the state of Israel and encourage attacks on Jews internationally. I'd call that pretty evil. I don't think any normal person would have a problem with such a group being destroyed
Hamas has stated their goal is the annihilation of the state of Israel and encourage attacks on Jews internationally. I'd call that pretty evil. I don't think any normal person would have a problem with such a group being destroyed
ofc they want to destroy the illegal racist apartheid state that is doing genocide to their people. (I think its safe to call it genocide considering Amnesty international of all people just claimed it)
gonna need a citation on the whole "encourage attacks on Jews internationally". sounds like some bullshit. now, I do know of a group of people whos goal is to attack all Palestinians throughout the world and who repeatedly does it.
Schizoposting is back. Might be time to take a sabbatical.
Just remember the severe destruction the allies brought on Germany and Japan. Did they stop their military operations, their killing of German and Japanese civilians, because the world said, "please stop, you're being excessive". No. The devastation only stopped when Germany and Japan agreed to an unconditional surrender, and agreed to give up their political and military ambitions. What happened after that? Both sides became close allies and have remained so to this date.
ofc the rest of his post is complete garbage where he uses a fake made up genocide to support an actual real genocide but his whole premise has been debunked so many times I will put it aside.
I want to focus on this quote. it really is a telling idea about Westerners and their propaganda and values. killing civilians is the Western default. it always has been. it is ok when we do it. it really is simply what Western liberal democracy stands for. in fact it is so deeply ingrained in Western ideals that this person presents killing millions of civilians without question as a positive.
the propaganda goes even further in that he thinks that this mass murder of German and Japanese civilians helped end the war. it didnt. the Soviets destroying the German Army is what ended the war. the Soviets killed like 80% of the German Army. the Allies just murdered a ton of civilians. and we are taught we were the best good guys.
ofc they want to destroy the illegal racist apartheid state that is doing genocide to their people.
None of those things are true. Israel isn't any of those things
(I think its safe to call it genocide considering Amnesty international of all people just claimed it)
I'm not interested in such biased sources Ai are a joke at this point.
gonna need a citation on the whole "encourage attacks on Jews internationally". sounds like some bullshit. now, I do know of a group of people whos goal is to attack all Palestinians throughout the world and who repeatedly does it.
It's on their wiki page.
pwc
Hamas has stated their goal is the annihilation of the state of Israel and encourage attacks on Jews internationally. I'd call that pretty evil. I don't think any normal person would have a problem with such a group being destroyed
Actions have always and will always speak louder than words.
I’m not about to support or praise what Hamas or Iran have said, but any logical person would see their words as a pittance compared to what Israel has been doing for 80 years.
terrorist Mandela
But sure, since we are placing so much emphasis on words..
“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.”
“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”
“After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “
“We must expel the Arabs and take their places…. And, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places- then we have force at our disposal.”
Your founding father, David Ben Gurion.
Like Oct 07 huh?
I’m not about to support or praise what Hamas or Iran have said,
That's nice of you thanks.
but any logical person would see their words as a pittance compared to what Israel has been doing for 80 years.
I think we differ on our interpretation of the word pittance. Are you saying that their call in their own charter for the destruction of Israel is a pittance? Israel have been defending themselves for the past 80 years, see the six day & yom kippur wars second intifada and October 07 for details.
Iran has directly funded and supported both Hamas and Hezbollah, on top of launching direct attacks against Israel. Not sure where the notion that they are all talk is coming from but it appeals that the discussion here has veered far away from reality.
drone striking disabled children in hospitals. this is what the West stands for. this is what any defense of Israel necessarily also defends.
there are pictures if you look for them.
Like Oct 07 huh?
That's nice of you thanks.
I think we differ on our interpretation of the word pittance. Are you saying that their call in their own charter for the destruction of Israel is a pittance? Israel have been defending themselves for the past 80 years, see the six day & yom kippur wars second intifada and October 07 for details.
No, we are absolutely on the same page, it’s just that you are completely blind to reality.
Hamas calling for the destruction of Israel as well as their attack on Oct 7th, disgusting and immoral most of it is/was, is absolutely without a glimmer of a doubt a pittance compared to 80 years of apartheid.
Apparently segregation & shooting 5 year olds in the skull is now called “self defence”.
