Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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32081 Replies
Jerusalem Post documents the Israeli culture of terrorism.
The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com
Three percent of Israeli Jews say expulsion would be immoral.
Ah. So Ted Cross didn't exist and didn't help Rauff get to South America via helping him with papers?
I have learned about the Rauff affair from a little more credible source. It is a lesson taught about asset usage.
I can go into details if you want, as it is no longer considered confidential information.
I'm aware of the concept of asset usage, it's nothing new and certainly not exclusive to Israel. I've already told you twice that I recognise the context.
You're still engaging in a glaring double standard and I already outlined why.
interesting...so like, they werent hostages. incidentally, can anyone tell me what an observer's role is?
Riiiight. So helping major Nazi war criminals responsible for 100k murders is far better than staying officially neutral in WWII while secretly helping the allies, because (yep) reasons and excuses and Ireland Bad.
Israel's attitude to Rauff is pretty peculiar. Much later, in 1979, they seemingly set up a project to assassinate him but couldn't find him.
Ireland's neutrality in WW2 was a political necessity for de Valera's nationalist government, but not for the people, since large numbers of Irishmen volunteered for the Crown forces (many times more than ever volunteered for the IRA). De Valera's chosen ambassador to Berlin in 1933-9 was this charmer:--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Be...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/a-deeply...
Not sure de Valera's government ever secretly helped the Allies. De Valera wanted the Nazis to win ('England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity') and expected that to happen. Only late on in the war, when it obviously was not going to happen, did he start repatriating RAF aircrew who'd come down in Ireland by mistake, instead of permanently interning them. And that was only for fear of retribution.
In 1945 de Valera imposed the infamous 'starvation order' on valiant Irish servicemen who'd deserted to fight the Nazis, denying them all employment, pension entitlement or benefits. Kind of tells you where he stood.
Israel's attitude to Rauff is pretty peculiar. Much later, in 1979, they seemingly set up a project to assassinate him but couldn't find him.
Ireland's neutrality in WW2 was a political necessity for de Valera's nationalist government, but not for the people, since large numbers of Irishmen volunteered for the Crown forces (many times more than ever volunteered for the IRA). De Valera's chosen ambassador to Berlin in 1933-9 was this charmer:--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPO_362
From your epo link
Canny lists four motivations for the order: as positive discrimination for those who had remained in the Defence Forces; to deter future desertions; to allow deserters to return to Ireland; and to provide a simpler, cheaper alternative to courts-martial.[3] A list of personnel affected by the order was maintained by the government; it was published in 2011.[4] Bernard Kelly has called the order "a highly pragmatic piece of political calculation
We provided intel to the allies and sent German pows to the allies, and allied ones to the allies also
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/how-n...
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/articl...
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2023/0510/...
Not certain on repatriation but we helped the allies right from the start
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_neut...
The pattern of co-operation between British and Irish agencies began upon the onset of war when de Valera permitted the use of specified Irish airspace mainly for patrolling coastal points. The use of the "Donegal Corridor", the narrow strip of Irish territory between County Fermanagh and the sea, was significant. By the autumn of 1941 use of the corridor was a daily routine.[44] While de Valera rejected British appeals to use Irish ports and harbour facilities directly, de Valera was, according to M.E. Collins, "more friendly than strict neutrality should have allowed."[45] The co-operation that emerged allowed for meetings to take place to consider events after German troops had overrun neutral Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Belgium. Three days after the fall of France, Irish and British defence officials met to discuss how British troops could, strictly at de Valera's invitation, occupy Ireland upon the event of a German landing there to expel foreign troops attempting to use her as a back door to later invade Britain (Plan "W"). The meetings continued, as Cranborn
And just to clarify, I'm not saying I agree we should have been neutral, just that we weren't morally bankrupt for choosing to be. There were all sorts of context, nuance and circumstance that led to Ireland adopting a neutral stance, just as there was for Israel working with the likes of Rauff. However the nuance and context is recognised for this, while not for Ireland being officially neutral. The argument from other posters (not yourself) appears to be that our neutrality was somehow more immoral than Israel and America working with Nazis, and that's what I'm not accepting, as again it's a glaring double standard and in no way comparable morally to our neutrality.
Corpus, what you aren't understanding is that it's definitionally impossible for America or esp Israel to be morally wrong. Similarly, it was impossible for Britain to be wrong for 100s of years
Nobody wants them across the Mideast
ops
Middle East crisis live
Middle East peace talks
Trump says US will ‘take over’ and ‘own’ Gaza Strip and says US troops will be deployed ‘if it’s necessary’ – live
Netanyahu calls Trump the ‘greatest friend Israel has ever had in the White House’ at a new conference alongside the US president
Trump says Palestinians have ‘no alternative’ but to leave Gaza
GENOCIDE!!!!
Trump says Palestinians should leave Gaza permanently and US will ‘take over’ strip
lol I'm dead. I knew I'd be right about Donald, but this is another level!
nobody is surprised that Trump is trying to do the same thing that Biden failed at. the good thing about Trump is all of the lives saved in the last few weeks. thousands of people are still alive right now.
maybe in a few days or weeks the Americans and Israelis get back to mass murder and terrorism or maybe not. I think it will be a lot harder now that Qassam has harvested tons of unexploded ordinance.
regardless, your glee is duly noted.
US Troops have already been deployed for over year fwiw. and they are currently patrolling checkpoints. no doubt they will get targeted soon.
I just love the swindles that Donald pulls over and over. Imagine being a Muslim in Michigan who voted for THIS?
You must be absolutely stunned.
I just love the swindles that Donald pulls over and over. Imagine being a Muslim in Michigan who voted for THIS?
You must be absolutely stunned.
I think that anyone with a shred of humanity is happy about the ceasefire. I think what you are doing is the thing that the internet kids call cope. thousands of people are still alive right now bc Trump was elected. maybe they die soon as many people seem to hope. but until then, I bet anyone who supports the Palestinians is happy that Trump won over Kamala.
so maybe wait until the mass murder resumes before smugly celebrating.
its kind of hard to google all this stuff bc the more recent Trump stuff dominates. but there are so many articles from 2023.
the problem with Trump is that he is more honest and direct. he makes it clear the goal is ethnic cleansing. liberals just use better euphemisms like "humanitarian corridor". the facts on the ground are what matter and the fact is that regardless who is president, they will try to forcibly remove the Palestinians. and the Lebanese and the Syrians.
Jerusalem Post documents the Israeli culture of terrorism.
The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com
Three percent of Israeli Jews say expulsion would be immoral.
If your neighbors were firing rockets and coming over the border and raping, killing and taking hostages you'd feel the same way.
Reuters: Saudi Arabia says it won't establish ties with Israel without creation of Palestinian state
Saudi Arabia said on Wednesday it would not establish ties with Israel without the creation of a Palestinian state - a statement that comes after U.S. President Donald Trump said that the Saudis were not demanding a Palestinian state.
ops
Middle East crisis live
Middle East peace talks
Trump says US will ‘take over’ and ‘own’ Gaza Strip and says US troops will be deployed ‘if it’s necessary’ – live
Netanyahu calls Trump the ‘greatest friend Israel has ever had in the White House’ at a new conference alongside the US president
Trump says Pal
something needs to change. It would be best if the Gazans were able to get rid of Hamas and elect a leader who doesn't intend to wipe out Israel. Trump knows this isn't gonna happen. He knows the attitude of these people toward Israel. Trump knows this is the time to reshape the Middle East. If you are an Arab country I would suggest getting on board. Those who won't cooperate with be dealt with. Trump is just spitting common sense. Enough is enough!
Reuters: Saudi Arabia says it won't establish ties with Israel without creation of Palestinian state
Saudi Arabia said on Wednesday it would not establish ties with Israel without the creation of a Palestinian state - a statement that comes after U.S. President Donald Trump said that the Saudis were not demanding a Palestinian state.
I bet they change their tune when Trump sits down with Saudi leadership. The Saudis have to know there will be no "Palestinian state".
its kind of hard to google all this stuff bc the more recent Trump stuff dominates. but there are so many articles from 2023.
the problem with Trump is that he is more honest and direct. he makes it clear the goal is ethnic cleansing. liberals just use better euphemisms like "humanitarian corridor". the facts on the ground are what matter and the fact is that regardless who is pre
I don't think the Lebanese and Syrians are going anywhere.
From Drudge Report:
