Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Hey Bill do you know why musk and bannon were sieg heiling?
Chez do you have any idea why?
I'm sure they're delighted if all their polical enemies go on about it instead of organsing around some serious left wing / progessive alternative to their agenda
Arafat said no. Enraged, Clinton banged on the table and said: "You are leading your people and the region to a catastrophe." A formal Palestinian rejection of the proposals reached the Americans the next day. The summit sputtered on for a few days more but to all intents and purposes it was over.Well Bill nailed that. He sure did lead them to catastrophe.
Clinton is a liar and so are you. The Israeli offers weren't serious.
And your source Benny Morris is an open ethnic cleanser and so are you, Chopper.
Oh I'm sure there was no real offer, lol. Come on guys.
On one side we have actual history.
On the other side, we have a pile of rubble and Clinton's exact prediction.
I'll let you all decide who got it right, and who missed the spot to negotiate with the Israeli left, back when it was in power.
Guys all the offers were generous compared to the rubble of today. ALL OF THEM.
They got the rubble.
Ok then.
in Oct 23, I thought that Israelis were like most other countries. they had some hardline psychos like the US Republicans and maybe they were overall a bit more militant but I figured most of them wanted to live in a peaceful and fair world.
these kinds of posts changed my mind.
"During this time displaced Palestinians, said to number 1.5 million, would be housed in temporary containers".
This Arab plan sounds lovely for the Gazans.
I think this is about to come to an end. Israel has been making plans to rebuild the temple on this sight. Now would be the perfect time especially since the Oct 7th attack was called the "Al Aqsa flood". This would be the ultimate revenge.
You are on acid. Israel invested massively in settlement infrastructure starting in 1967. None of the "generous offers" included removing the occupation of the West Bank.
Yet another situation where the Arabs lost the war. I think at this time the Israelis realized that there would never be harmony with these people. Israel is a lot safer with the nutty settlers continuing to move in.
I think this is about to come to an end. Israel has been making plans to rebuild the temple on this sight. Now would be the perfect time especially since the Oct 7th attack was called the "Al Aqsa flood". This would be the ultimate revenge.
Are you sure about this? I am pretty sure Netanyahu, and most other non religious Israelis, kind of want the Temple Mount/Al Aqsa thing to die down. Muslims are so emotionally invested in it, and many Jews dont really care. Juice definitely not worth the squeeze.
The last thing Israel needs is for them to be as stupid, violent and intolerant as Palestinians are for religious reasons.
Nor the annexation of East Jerusalem, and obviously no Palestinian leader could sign away the Palestinian capital. That was the tactic (an offer certain to be refused) that Israel used to make sure the Bill Clinton initiative went nowhere and Israel didn't have to concede anything. Clinton in his memoirs angrily blamed the Palestinians for denying him that reputational legacy,
Muslims controlled Jerusalem for 700 years or so, including the 20th century up until 1967, and were extremely restrictive and cruel, not allowing Jews despite knowing it was the most important Holy site in the Jewish religion. Israel has had control of the city for the last 60 years, and been much more accommodating, allowing literally hundreds of thousands of Muslim to pilgrimage and pray there a year.
Maybe this is one where we reward the side that is much less bigoted and intolerant. I understand that it is easier and more expedient to just give in to the side that is more violent and intolerant if they dont get their way. But that doesn't make it right.
The Arab plan pretty much ignores that Hamas and all the other non-state militias aligned with foreign interests are going to just keep doing their thing under their plan.
Seems to be a non starter with Israel. If I was Israel I would tell the Arabs, go ahead and spend $50 billion (or whatever) to rebuild Gaza. And if one rocket is launched from there at Israel then Gaza is going to be leveled again, and all the money will be wasted.
But I dont think Israel is inclined to take this position. They seem committed to a future without Palestinian foreign-aligned non state militias constantly threatening and attacking them.
Seriously, look at how intolerant, violent and anti-semitic Palestinian society is. If a Jew turns down the wrong street in Arab areas they are literally risking their lives. East Jerusalem controlled by Palestinians would be a giant security nightmare for everyone, especially Jews. It is really a non starter.
It would basically by Israel deciding Jerusalem should be a no go zone for Jews again, which would be pretty horrible given they just recently gained access to it after 2000 years of exile.
Currently what israel thinks is a non-starter really matters. That wont last.
If israel keeps doing whatever it wants with no regard for others then they will find plans being imposed on them.
Nor the annexation of East Jerusalem, and obviously no Palestinian leader could sign away the Palestinian capital. That was the tactic (an offer certain to be refused) that Israel used to make sure the Bill Clinton initiative went nowhere and Israel didn't have to concede anything. Clinton in his memoirs angrily blamed the Palestinians for denying him that reputational legacy,
The NI situation was/is fairly simple to grasp compared to Israel/Palestine.
You are on acid. Israel invested massively in settlement infrastructure starting in 1967. None of the "generous offers" included removing the occupation of the West Bank.
Sorry Bill, not interested in your alternative realities. In the current timeline, Israel generously offered land for peace multiple times to no avail.
Seriously, look at how intolerant, violent and anti-semitic Palestinian society is. If a Jew turns down the wrong street in Arab areas they are literally risking their lives. East Jerusalem controlled by Palestinians would be a giant security nightmare for everyone, especially Jews. It is really a non starter. It would basically by Israel deciding Jerusalem should be a no g
It's going back to before 10/7, but the amount of times I was told not to take one wrong turn or I'd risk my life. It's legit. It's not fake. That's well before 10/7.
Sorry Bill, not interested in your alternative realities. In the current timeline, Israel generously offered land for peace multiple times to no avail.
Are you saying it DID offer to end the military occupation? That it DIDN'T invest in massive settlement? These are facts, not an alternative reality. Acid is the alternative reality and you're on it.
You don't know details of any of the offers, you're just mouthing hasbara talking points.
Bill the framework for land for peace through the 90's was there. We only have to cite all the offers that didn't get accepted, and all the ones that did (Lebanon, Sinia, Gaza, etc).
Everything that happened in the Clinton disaster timeline after that, stems from the madness of the Intifadas.
few.
It's going back to before 10/7, but the amount of times I was told not to take one wrong turn or I'd risk my life. It's legit. It's not fake. That's well before 10/7.
what happens if a Palestinian takes a wrong turn?
hell what happens when Palestinians walk to school, or tend to their herd, or tend to their olive trees?
Assuming you are right, and all the offers from Israel weren’t serious enough. What about the Pal? What offers did they give?
what offers did the Algerians give to the French? the Indians to the English? the Vietnamese to Japanese, French or Americans?
regardless, Hamas HAS a standing offer of demilitarization for a state along the 67 borders and right of return.
what happens if a Palestinian takes a wrong turn?
hell what happens when Palestinians walk to school, or tend to their herd, or tend to their olive trees?
or sit on the beach, as happened.
Bill the framework for land for peace through the 90's was there. We only have to cite all the offers that didn't get accepted, and all the ones that did (Lebanon, Sinia, Gaza, etc).
Everything that happened in the Clinton disaster timeline after that, stems from the madness of the Intifadas.
few.
The Intifadas FOLLOWED the Israeli refusal to grant a state.
