Israel/Palestine thread

no ofc I dont think that. I am pointing out that they are acting in bad faith.

the point is that they are saying the links are fake or "cropped" and they are lying and acting in bad faith like always.

they are just embodying the high school teacher arbitrariness. I wont cater to them on matter of principle. remember, dont ever believe that they are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies

You know what they say, the best defence is a good offence.

https://forensic-architecture.org/invest...

You guys are so anti-Semitic always focusing on Israel. I mean for gods sake it’s the only Jewish country in the world don’t they have a right to defend themselves?!?!?!

You made the claim that Israel doesn’t have free speech. Asking for the links to your sources is perfectly reasonable. The pictures you posted are literally cropped, so calling them cropped is not lying. And you’re saying other people are arguing in bad faith? I’m sorry but this is insanity, mental illness, whatever you want to call it.

And what about all the crimes in Timbuktu?!? HUH? I don’t see anyone posting in this thread about their war crimes which have nothing to do with this conflict. Explain that! I bet if the Buktuans were Jewish you guys would be all over it.

You have no shame.

you didnt ask for links. you called the screenshots fake, and pretended that you didnt know how to read. screenshots are perfectly reasonable citations and are actually much better than a link bc they can specify the exact crucial argument so you dont need to hunt all over an article for it.

I am being charitable when I accuse you of bad faith bc I dont for a second believe that you are so stupid that you cant decipher "if you’re displaying the title, a subtitle, just a sentence or what."

this isnt a book report or a research paper and you arent a high school teacher.

No and no.

Trolly, you seriously can't tell where these screenshots come from? Or do you think they are fake?

You think linking a long article with pertinent details possibly buried in it is worse than posting the actual exact part of the article supporting the argument?

And as for twitter, tweets get deleted all the time so they are absolutely better.

But I guess you guys are pretty bad at deciphering fake news given you still believe in the Russia hoax.

Liberals quite often shy away from good faith arguments because they can't handle their emotions. Have you ever seen how flustered and frustrated many of these people get when trying to debate Charlie Kirk or Ben Shapiro? A good debater is able to keep his emotions in check and actually listen to the other persons side. You should try to engage Blue in dialogue. Hear his side of the argument. Learn something from those who have boots on the ground instead of getting all of your information from mainstream liberal media.

Is that what I said?

Lol citing 2 intellectual jokes that get constantly owned and rarely act in "good faith".

People get emotional when they are gaslit. Hardly surprising.

This is not advocating for any perspectives ITT. I just can't get over referring to Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro as positive examples.

In other news, Israel just launched a 22 jet mission against HTS, destroying large amounts of military infrastructure. Very strange allies (according to Victor at least).

Maybe Trump secretly thinks the Israelis, the aggressors at fault, need to be deported and that's why he's desperate to have Greenland - as a landing spot. They are mostly just Europeans anyway.

You mean all the gay Muslims that have to flee Muslim nations to Israel because of their intolerance and hate?

Less than half of Israelis are of European descent at this point.

But you are a European colonizer, so perhaps you should volunteer to emigrate to Greenland; and give back the spoils of oppression, ethnic cleansing and genocide you currently enjoy.

Or these Latino looking people in the white nationalist movement, guys who are just passable as white but clearly significantly "diluted" who fill up the ranks. What do they think would happen in their perfect world when no one is left standing but them and a bunch of Aryan looking people? You think you're not getting mopped up in an afterthought?

I will confess my secret positive bias towards Jewish people - I would put my money on the Israelis to have some kind of game plan mapped out for that scenario, something a lot better than all the good people get swirling in the air up to heaven and all the bad people get stuck in a fiery Hell pit like the evangelicals believe. They know exactly what these Christians think.

The fact that something has been done in history doesn't mean it is ok to be done currently. That's one implication of having laws. But, in your defense, Israel has had the eye watering hubris to think "We will end free speech in America so we can mass murder people for being the wrong ethnicity around where we went uninvited". And now, apparently, Israel has achieved the ending of free speech in the U.S. Given that achievement, I can see why you would think "We will make America lawless so we can mass murder people for being the wrong ethnicity around where we went uninvited."

The Israeli game plan for any of those scenarios is that Jews get to live in Israel and if there's a 4th Reich it is going to eat a nuclear bomb. That was the plan...and I think Jews pretty universally understood it as such...but Arabs didn't do the holocaust and Israel wasn't just a defensive project.

Unfortunately there just isn't enough of them. We see that in Israel's battle of survival against the Arabs. Israel wins pretty much every battle, but it is 7 million vs 480 million, so eventually going to lose the war. Just a numbers game.

Israel hasn't really had conflict with the greater Arab world for 52 years. A little with the past regime of Iraq, Palestine, and segments of Lebanon and Syria since then.

That is because Israel (and its allies) have been projecting so much strength. But make no mistake, if/when this power dynamic changes, the entire Ummah will come together and crush Israel. Even the Palestinians living peacefully in Israel that see Jewish Israelis as friends, would stab those friends in the back when the right situation presented itself (literally and figuratively). They might feel bad about it, but make no mistake, they would still do it. That is just how zero sum tribal cultures work.

No. Israel's interests align with SA (and UAE and Kuwait) and Jordan's interests. Egypt has been more complicated, but the Camp David accords have held that peace.

As far as large states go, Israel's interests have been more at odds with Iran (not an Arab country) than with the Arab world. Why is that? Why would what used to be Israel against all the closer Arab neighbors turn into Israel against Iran and its allies? I'm sure you think it's some zero sum clash of cultures nonsense, but it's because oil is the primary reason for any large conflicts in the region and USA and its proxy/ally help preserve Saudi Arabia's status and Saudi Arabia/Gulf States vs Iran is the most fundamental conflict in the region. Iraq used to be part of that big conflict, but that changed after a couple US invasions.

People think it's because of culture and Jews and USA has always been a huge supporter of Israel, but beyond some support in the UN that just wasn't always true. In the 1967 war, Israel was fighting with European military equipment that they just bought. Their air force was all French planes. It wasn't until the oil crisis that USA became a huge backer of Israel.

Tolerating something from a position of weakness, and tolerating it from a position of strength from first principles are two very different things.

Some Sunni Arab nations have begrudgingly accepted a detente with Israel, due to acceptance of Israeli/US strength and in exchange for US support against the Iranian dominated Shia Axis (and because the spice must flow). If the power dynamics shifted, I dont think the tolerance would last very long.

Time will tell I guess.

My understanding is that despite the govt, the people of Iran are becoming as atheistic as Europe. Barely anyone even fasts for Ramadan anymore. It will be interesting to see how alliances and power dynamics shift if/when Iran eventually transitions to a non theocratic govt.

I am aware of that. It isn't a coincidence the Sunni Arab world began their detente with Israel when the US became a backer. It was a purely pragmatic shift. There was no first principles involved, other than "might makes right."

Also, there is a reason the Sunni gulf regimes exert such total totalitarian control over the speech and expression of their people. They are very aware of what the people actually think about their detente with Israel.