Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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33722 Replies
"White" is a relative indicator of European/American privilege (no white person is actually white, just as no black person is actually black ldo).
Seeing how many Israeli passport holders are colonialists from America or Europe or recent descendants of them, in the context of this conflict it's reasonable to refer to Israelis as white people and Palestinians as brown.
Sorry bud, once you play the role of western colonial oppressor you get lumped in with the whiteys.
So basically a 2nd or 3rd generation Jew in Israel is european if some of his ancestors were, and hasn't any legitimate claim to live where he (or his parents) were born, while a rwandan that came to the UK 15-20 years ago (or whose both parents did, and he was born in the UK) is a british person 100% and any reference to the fact that he is actually rwandan is racism and a crime of hate speech if used in connection to crimes he committed.
Can't play this game both sides guys, really.
Don't be so stupid.
Everyone should have birthright citizenship (though few countries support this now). Citizenship is what gives people the British or American label.
It's worth noting in addition that the council found that the Israel's tactics which are specifically aimed at reducing the reproductive capability of Palestinians constitutes genocidal acts under the Rome statute.
I don't usually take the effort to highlight the specific heinous things that Israel does because they do them constantly and are highlighted all over. I assume everyone ITT assumes that Israel is at all times doing every evil thing it can get away with. But apparently they are using the Rome statutes as a to-do list and I didn't even know everything on that list. You think they are starving, torturing, displacing, humiliating, and killing as many as they can constantly. Then it's like no, there is more evil you didn't even think of that Israel has been doing.
Reading reports of human rights organizations reporting on Israel is like watching a documentary on the Nazis. You always learn it's actually worse than the worst thing you can imagine. I honestly don't see how Israeli supporters live with themselves or think they are decent people. Do you Israeli supporters secretly worship the Devil or something? Probably you keep a more rational ideology which you don't really confront because you know it can't withstand introspection, something like "kill or be killed", some kind of ideology that if even species as low as snakes adopted it would make them go extinct. The ideology by which Israel is operating is not just sub-human, it's sub-animal.
Deep down they have to know that there is no ideology which can justify the abomination that is Israel which isn't also going to destroy its own purveyors.
Deep down they have to know that there is no ideology which can justify the abomination that is Israel which isn't also going to destroy its own purveyors.
right, there is no defense of Israel left. and thats why they need to resort to crap like deporting a person who, by their own admission broke no laws. and crap like this.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c...
So basically a 2nd or 3rd generation Jew in Israel is european if some of his ancestors were, and hasn't any legitimate claim to live where he (or his parents) were born, while a rwandan that came to the UK 15-20 years ago (or whose both parents did, and he was born in the UK) is a british person 100% and any reference to the fact that he is actually rwandan is racism and a crime of hate speech if used in connection to crimes he committed.
Can't play this game both sides guys, really.
You're right. Every human should be entitled to go to anything reasonably described as a country, but for damn sure to stay where they were born.
So basically a 2nd or 3rd generation Jew in Israel is european if some of his ancestors were, and hasn't any legitimate claim to live where he (or his parents) were born, while a rwandan that came to the UK 15-20 years ago (or whose both parents did, and he was born in the UK) is a british person 100% and any reference to the fact that he is actually rwandan is racism and a crime of hate speech if used in connection to crimes he committed.
Can't play this game both sides guys, really.
The idea that people can relocate from one country to another is actually really simple to figure out if you aren't locked into a backwards ethnonationalist view of the world. Yes, a person from Africa can move into the UK and become a 100% UK citizen no matter how uncomfortable that makes Nazi twerps like you.
The idea that people can relocate from one country to another is actually really simple to figure out if you aren't locked into a backwards ethnonationalist view of the world. Yes, a person from Africa can move into the UK and become a 100% UK citizen no matter how uncomfortable that makes Nazi twerps like you.
that's only true if you are not allowed to call Israeli leaders "europeans". Try to read again.
"White" is a relative indicator of European/American privilege (no white person is actually white, just as no black person is actually black ldo).
Seeing how many Israeli passport holders are colonialists from America or Europe or recent descendants of them, in the context of this conflict it's reasonable to refer to Israelis as white people and Palestinians as brown.
Sorry bud, once you play the role of western colonial oppressor you get lumped in with the whiteys.
What's wrong with being lumped in with the "whiteys"?
The commitment to Israel dates to 1948, decades before the Islamic revival. It was about oil.
Truman put an arms embargo on Israel, which therefore got its arms mostly from France and Britain. The US embargo lasted until Eisenhower in 1960 concluded a secret deal for West Germany to ship arms to Israel and JFK in 1962 approved the sale of Hawk anti-aircraft missiles (which were also supplied to Jordan). At this stage the US was wary of triggering a Middle East arms race, with the Soviets arming the Arab states to compete. But in 1966, Johnson went and agreed the sale of 200 ex-US Patton tanks in Germany and 48 A-4 Skyhawk attack jets. (This probably emboldened the Israelis to carry out the autumn 1966 raid on Jordan, which appalled the Johnson administration, but Johnson didn't learn the lesson.)
Israel was pushing for 50 Phantoms, a hugely escalatory deal, to get the Americans completely suckered in. Johnson resisted this. After the 1967 war, in which Israel was the aggressor, Britain refused to supply Israel with the Chieftain tank and France refused to supply the Mirage V jet (though, being the French, they shipped a Mirage to Israel in parts so they could reverse-engineer it and build it locally, but the Americans probably did not know this at the time), so the demand for Phantoms got louder. The administration's agencies said there was no real need for these aircraft, but Congress exerted itself -- primarily at the instance of Senator Stuart Symington, representing Missouri, where Phantoms were built -- and, long story short, the administration, in deep trouble over Vietnam, gave way and agreed to ramp up the Middle East arms race by supplying 50 F-4E Phantoms, the latest model, for $285m cash. In response the Soviets sent 200 MiG-23s to Egypt. But by then the US was on the hook. This was nearly five years before the Yom Kippur War, so it wasn't to do with that.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the...
Senator Robert F Kennedy's apparent support for Symington was Sirhan Sirhan's stated motive for murdering him in June 1968. I recall seeing Sirhan say this, on TV, in an interview with David Frost, in 1989. Sirhan did the interview as a tactic to get parole. He did not come across well, chuckling involuntarily over what he'd done and then unconvincingly trying to look sorry, and the tactic failed.
What if I told you if there was no Israel, Hezbollah and Hamas wouldn't exist.
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Looking back at the last 70 years, it is hard to argue things didn’t work out for America. Maybe you can argue that all the divisions and wars weren’t moral, and certainly haven’t been good for the Arab world, but things have worked out pretty damn well for us.
People that argue Israel hasn’t been good to America, I think don’t appreciate just how well America has done in the last 50 years, and how there are many ways it could have gone worse.
Hard to imagine the US specifically fares as well in a world without Israel, Hamas and Hezbollah.
Now things didn’t have to go so bad for the Arab world. At the end of the day they made a lot of bad decisions and could have made better ones. And are responsible for those bad decisions and commits to bad outcomes.
I reject the argument Arabs have no moral agency and the US and Israel are to blame for their horrible behavior.
But still, looking at the ledger, the US came out pretty well I would argue.
67 is the when the relationship started taking on the contours we still see today. Once Israel established its military competence the U.S. took notice, like when a young ambitious mobster wannabe makes some big scores and gets accepted into the crime family. The U.S. wanted oil. Israel wanted its settler colonialist project. Once Israel showed they meant business and their military was the best in the region the U.S. and Israel have cooperated towards the objective of under developing the ME. That means the other nations in the region being led by corrupt extremists. The victory in 67 was a champagne popping milestone in this campaign to keep the ME backwards as possible for as long as possible so that the U.S. could control the oil and Israel could ethnically cleanse.
The whole time, way before 67, there was always an undercurrent of support for Israel based on Christian Zionism, even back to Balfour, but when Israel was able to align itself as a capable partner in exploiting the ME, when it became a very sharpened geopolitical tool, that's when the love started really flowing.
Most early "Americans" and "Australians" (ie not the indigenous people) were European colonisers.
Israel is up to 4 generations in now.
Being in generation 6-8 versus generation 4 isn’t really a difference. Given that many Israelis aren’t even white, I would say the Deuces Mckrsxkens and Trollys of the world are much more European colonizers than the average Israeli.
It always amazes me the cognitive dissonance of white Americans doing the whole “white colonizer” shtick with so little self awareness.
Ofc Trolly and Deuces are colonizers. We are the beneficiaries of stolen land, genocide, and slavery.
It's just that the early generations #finishedTheJob in the USA. But I guess it's antisemitism to not let the Israelis do the same.
What if I told you if there was no Israel, Hezbollah and Hamas wouldn't exist.
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If Israel didn't exist I'm pretty sure they would find something else to complain about. It's not like the people who are Hamas and Hezbelloh operatives would be off writing software, doing investment banking, and working on real estate development projects.
Well that's the single worst take I've read today, and that includes several Luciom posts.
Ofc Trolly and Deuces are colonizers. We are the beneficiaries of stolen land, genocide, and slavery.
It's just that the early generations #finishedTheJob in the USA. But I guess it's antisemitism to not let the Israelis do the same.
there are plenty of natives left to which you should feel compelled to donate all your property and then become a servant to for life to amend for the sins of your ancestors in your model of morality.
why don't you do that?
Looking back at the last 70 years, it is hard to argue things didn’t work out for America. Maybe you can argue that all the divisions and wars weren’t moral, and certainly haven’t been good for the Arab world, but things have worked out pretty damn well for us.
People that argue Israel hasn’t been good to America, I think don’t appreciate just how well America has done in the last 50 years, and how there are many ways it could have gone worse.
Hard to imagine the US specifically fares as we
Meh, without Israel BP, Exxon, etc... would have still muscled in and gas prices probably track the same. Without the excellent intelligence from Israel probably cost more blood but same amount of treasure but can't argue it is a pretty good outsource.
oh wow, shocker. the women who did a bullshit documentary on the fake mass rape hoax turns out to be a sex pest herself.
say the line Bart...
so is her husband btw too
