Israel/Palestine thread

Not over Israel - remember he was having meetings with Netanyahu and inviting him to Mar-a-Lago before he was elected.

At what point in time would you allow Iran to enrich uranium to a point that it is weapons grade? When they are literally at the point that they are about to launch it?

Your question is irrelevant bc there were no indications from US intelligence, or inspectors that they were pursuing a weapon.

But obv I don't have problem with Iran having a nuke. And it sure doesn't give the genocidal White Empire the right to do mass murder.

Is this your first day here? Why in the world would you assume Victor thinks Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons.

Why do you have problems with Iran having a nuke? It isn't obvious to me you would have any problem.

Bc I was posting on my phone and typoed. I edited.

Jews in Israel are mostly nonwhite I thought?

Do you not agree that's he's alienated a large % of his base, and damaged the future of the MAGA movement, with these actions? Do you not agree that we've seen some pretty extreme attempts to control the situation from Israeli intelligence? As a poker player, of course I have to think that this is in their range (I phrased it as "I wouldn't be surprised").

Of course I'm aware of those positions, but this is a guy who campaigned on 'America first' and who took over the Republican party in large part due to hating on neocons for Iraq, so forgive me for being surprised that his position on Iran is strong enough to override what got him to his position in the first place.

Does that sound like simpleton reasoning to you?

Well, all indications are you underestimated his personal convictions wrt Iran. I suggest you revisit all the things he has done and said wrt the regime since 2016, and readjust your expectations.

When Trump wrote this in 2018, maybe we all underestimated how much he meant it:

And yes, Trump has probably alienated some of his base. But he clearly feels he can survive this politically. Bannon has given his opinion that Trump will survive this politically too. Time will tell I guess.

I will say, all indications are Trump really did want to make a deal that would pretty much make it impossible for the IRGC to build a nuclear bomb. And give himself the W for it. But like Hamas and Russia, he realized the IRGC was just ****ing with him, stringing him along, with no deal in sight.

With Russia and Hamas, Trump had little leverage or personal convictions so he just took the L and moved on. With the IRGC, it appears he hates them so much and he feels he has enough leverage that his impulse is just to say "**** them" if they act the way they have been acting.

Also, as much as we laser focus on Israel as the big bad monster. There is some speculation that a lot of other Arab nations are encouraging the US to get involved and destroy Iran's nuclear facilities. And are perfectly ok with Israel's campaign to degrade the IRGC military capabilities around the region.

I know you and Victor are completely indifferent to how much death, destruction and mayhem the IRGC has caused throughout the Arab world by supporting Islamist proxies. But most of the Arab world is very aware, and would very much like this nightmare to end. Although they obviously cant say anything publicly as Iran would likely punitively punish them for it, and they have to manage the expectation of their own low IQ, low human capital right wing Islamist populism.

Looks like the attack plans and the involvement of the US is very close at this point (could be a matter of a couple of days away). Question to Victor - do you now tell Iran to surrender?

historically, surrendering to genocidal Supremacists has not ended up well. but thats up to them and I think they have better ideas than me about their strategy.

This is just the wrong frame of analysis. His, and MAGAs', "America First" isn't some thought out policy plan or ideology. It's all about feeling good as the big man with the stick again.

Hamas is beneath Trump's attention and Trump will never pay the political capital for boots on the ground (not that he gives a **** about American lives. He just doesn't want to get involved in a long term investment without short term payoff.) Iran he can bitch slap with American airpower without consequence. Trump is Vlad's biatch so Russia is fine.

This is the only level of analysis you need to go to. Because that's really how simplistic Trump's brain is.

Why would they surrender? If Israel continues to just attack military and nuclear installations, they will eventually run out of bombs or interest. And then everything can be rebuilt. And if they start attacking Iran's economy or people, the Mullahs will probably just get a "rally the wagons" boost from the people. And China may get involved.

No one is willing or interested in invading Iran. And despite rhetoric, there seems to be no appetite by the people for revolution. It seems the Mullahs can just wait things out and then rebuild. No need to surrender.

Hamas and Russia also dont directly threaten Trump verbally the way the IRGC does. Whether they actually did or not, Trump thinks Iran tried to assassinate him. And they are constantly threatening him verbally.

IRGC makes things personal for Trump, and he is very vindictive and petty going after people he views as his personal enemies.

Irsraelis are doing the dirty work for the Americans and Arabs.

Everyone knows the IRGC needs some bitch slapping and Iran cannot be allowed to have a nuke. (it's absolute and complete non-sense Iranians aren't building nuclear weapons. It's probably "technically true" they aren't putting weapons together now but it's a complete joke to pretend refining uranium to 80% isn't a major step toward completing nuclear weapons.)

The IAEA announced that since the current fighting started Iran has closed their nuclear facilities and they have no clue if any of the weapons grade enriched uranium has been moved, or where it may have been moved to. They estimate it is enough to build 10 warheads.

Maybe Israel has some mechanism to track the uranium, even underground?

Or just some paid spies

It has gotten lost in all the noise, but the IDF admitted they targeted a meeting that included most of the senior Houthi figures recently. And none of the Houthis targeted have made an appearance since, nor have the Houthis made any announcements one way or another what the results of the attack were.

That being said, there has also been much less activity from the Houthis than expected over the last few days. They stress they dont know, but Israel believes it is possible the attack was very successful and the Houthi senior cabinet was entirely decimated, including the senior members who coordinated with the IRGC. Explaining no apparent coordination between the IRGC and the Houthis in attacking Israel.

What colour are people in Southern Spain?

So, you found evidence of two racist people in Israel, as proof discrimination?

Did you know Muslims just celebrated eid al adha? Have you been to any celebrations? Do you have any real-life relationships?

Cause we celebrated here together, day after day, whole communities. Also, when you will have your first ever supreme court Muslim judge, or minister, than lecture us about discrimination.

It takes another level of privilege and ******ation to believe in something like that.

Vic or Jal, please teach a simple-minded person like me some facts.

What achievements Iran had in advancing humanity in the 20th and 21st centuries? Scientific, real-life applications, medicinal etc.
How many Nobel prize winners?

A 90 million ancient civilization, im sure they have many many of those.

Southern Spain was conquered by the Moors and also was part of an empire that included Egypt and the Middle East so presumably there were at least a few people from MENA that settled there.

The genetic data revealed that no significant African component remained in the genetic legacy of the population of the southern Iberian Peninsula compared to other Iberian and European populations, despite North African people living in the region for almost 800 years.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-41580-9

Nature

Genetic structure in the paternal lineages of South East Spain revealed by the analysis of 17 Y-STRs - Scientific Reports

...

The analysis of Y chromosomes in the GMA population indicated that the male influence of the North African inhabitants that could have remained in the population in the southern peninsula did not influence the genetic legacy of the population in this region more intensely than in other Iberian populations. After the Reconquest of the region by the Catholic Monarchs, the region was repopulated with entire families from the rest of the peninsula3. Although many of the Moriscos who inhabited the region were converted to Christianity and although mixed marriages might have formed, the Y chromosome lineages indicate that this phenomenon occurred at such a low frequency that its small influence prevented it from surviving the 600 years that have passed since the dissolution of the Kingdom of Granada

//

To note, even if it is OT for this thread, the genetic success of the reconquista proves to us that it's possible to reverse the effects of mass immigration on a genetic pool. It "just" takes a lot of effort

Maybe, but that's been Netanyahu's line for decades now. Iran is doing so-and-so and will have nukes any day now. Right around the corner, jut months away, real soon, we swear.

Iran of course is so problematic that it's not worth the risk to try and prove him wrong at this point, but let's at least acknowledge 30+ years of his (and the US's) total bullshit and lack of credibility on this. This whole bit is less about proliferation and more about regime change in Iran, which is fine on the surface except for all the needless atrocities and the eventual bungling of the whole thing as always. Of course since the existing agreement was tossed in DJT's 1st term naturally Iran are going to show their asses about it and that might actually have worked as a negotiation tactic except BN is fine to escalate things unchecked.

So whatever I guess. For as **** as the Iranian regime is I'm not even sure what options they have at this point to not be a **** regime. I'm half surprised the IAEA never found plans for a ****ing Death Star there given their situation. This whole act is tired but you know it's been a couple years since the last go-round, get your cute little flags ready