Israel/Palestine thread

Anyways, in the real world it looks like people are still willing to do business with Israel. Iran was kind enough to show the world how effective Israeli defense systems are.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospa...

I think if Israel stopped murdering children much of the bloodshed could be avoided.

Well Tucker Carlson talked about this at a recent interview with a German journalist.. That is not what Cooper said…. Cooper did not deny that Hitler was against what he called “international Jewry”

What we have here is an example of gotcha journalism from various the conservatives trying to convince you of this. Cooper brought up what he felt was Germanys side of the war. Nowhere has he denied a revised the holocaust.

It is interesting that what we have going on here are radical left BLM tactics being used by neoconservatives when it comes to the topic of Israel/Palestine.

Anyway Israel is a nuclear arm country now surrounded by Allied or neutral Muslim countries. Obviously Gaza has no ability whatsoever to defend itself as unlike Ukraine it does not have a legitimate military. People with glorified rockets effectively, and AK-47s at best. No tanks, no Air Force no navy …

Saudi Arabia even provided intelligence to Israel during Iranian strikes against Israel. Israel it’s not going anywhere. The only question is about its political leadership and the legacy of the country.

Well numerous reports suggest that Hamas offered to give back all of the hostages if Israel avoided a full scale invasion of Gaza. So there you go.

Of course a lot of Palestinians don’t like Iran. They talk a big game but Dolittle to actually help Palestinians. Probably the last leader who actually did something with Saddam Hussein. Iran is Shia majority Palestinians are Sunni could play a role.

Israel is now effectively surrounded by Muslim lies. It’s a new game here in 2025. You have the Abraham accords we have Saudi Arabia providing intelligence to Israel.

There is effectively no legitimate assistance from anyone toward the people of Gaza, which I find to be hypocrisy at its worst. And I am certainly an opponent of radical leftism ie identity politics , but I think that what might be playing a role Here is the fact that Ukrainians are mostly white. They are getting sophisticated military weapons from the west ..the people of Gaza, who morally speaking are just as good or bad as Ukrainians get nothing at all and it’s a bloodbath in Gaza. Sure Hamas has problems but so does the Ukraine government…..bottom line historically the United States and other western nations have intervened in countries and supplied weaponry to groups of people, even if it’s not a government backed group of that country. But not with Gazans.

This is coming from multiple reports. It was never about the hostages. It was about Israeli expansion into Gaza or eliminating as many Palestinians as possible.

Footage of an emergency meeting between all parties was leaked.

Lmao. I think Victor hopped on another one of his accounts

I find it extremely interesting that there is a new poster in this thread, who happens to be pushing far right narratives; a la Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, and Darryl Cooper. But because he is focusing on Jews he is getting zero pushback at all from the so called leftists on the forum.

When it comes to Jews/Israel we really are seeing horseshoe theory come to life.

Hamas is free to give back all the hostages anytime. All they have to do is contact the Red Cross and Qatar and coordinate the drop-off, and it will happen. Obviously Hamas disagrees with our assertions, and feel there is leverage to be gained by holding them for 1.5 years and counting.

Also, the moral relativism between Ukraine and Gaza is your personal opinion, but it is certainly not something the majority of Western governments agree with. Also, your understanding of history is nonsense.

The US has historically given weapons when it felt it was in their geopolitical interest to do so. It doesn't just give out weapons to the side losing a war, and certainly not if that side is a close ally to a recognized enemy of the United States; and who is fighting a ideologically driven forever war to destroy a US ally.

Unfortunately, for geopolitical reasons the rest of the world is unable to undertake the humanely reasonable action in this case, which would be removing the people from the battleground until the war is finished and Hamas is destroyed.

Arming Hamas or otherwise assisting them militarily is not an action that makes any sense for pretty much anyone (except the IRGC and its other proxies), especially the US, nor is there any reasonable moral argument to do so.

by chezlaw m

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg5g4p3245o

BBC News

France to recognise Palestinian state in September

I really dont understand what outside nations recognizing a Palestinian state will accomplish. There is no indication the Palestinians, at the leadership level or the general populace, want a state alongside Israel themselves. And half of what would constitute the so called state is in the control of a terrorist organization, that also has no interest in statehood.

I dont even really know why Israel is objecting so much. It just seems like a giant empty symbolic nothing burger.

Palestinian nationalism is not about making a state alongside Israel, and never has been. It is all about repudiating the existence of Israel. The Palestinian state exists nowhere but in the Western imagination.

It’s also interesting how I mention that Hamas returning the hostages and disarming would have avoided much of the bloodshed and this new poster gives a familiar bullshit answer about Hamas wanting to return the hostages (but no mention of disarmament). Interesting. I’ve seen this same inability to comprehend simple English from other posters in here.

In other news, yesterday a Spanish airline forcibly threw off a group of ~50 French Jewish teenagers flying home from a summer camp, going so far as to forcibly detain a 21 year old counselor (she was later released with no charges AFAIK). The Spanish airline and the police force that came to remove the campers said they were acting unruly and tampering with equipment and were removed for the safety of the crew and passengers

However, the campers themselves state none of their is true, and they were just targeted for their religion.

FWIW, the airline and local police have provided no evidence their version of events is the true one; and when detaining the children forced them to delete all cell phone footage of the incident. Which doesn't exactly scream honesty. There is also a social media report the detained counselor was made to sign an NDA, although this could very easily be fake social media "reporting."

Interestingly, the western MSM is very slow to dig into the incident. So we will see what comes to light if/when they become interested.

I’m sure I can find the answer somewhere but what exactly is the composition of the state France is recognizing? Or is it just a recognition of the general concept of a Palestinian state?

The area is run by Hamas so that has to be who they are recognizing.

It's a start. Somehow a viable state has to come into existence and it can't be left under the control of israel.

As always I reject the idea that we start at the end as ridiculous. Also you're imaginations about palestinian nationalism are of no relevence.

Tragically we are seeing a massive rise in antisemitism and anti palestinianism.

People here somehow defend the horror being inflicted on innocent palestinians and other will blame all israelis and all jewish people. It's the alternative to politics and it's extremely ugly.

Most of the world already recognizes a Palestinian state. It seems the only thing stopping "Palestine" from becoming a UN member state is US veto. However, in the scenario where the US rescinded the veto, it isn't clear what the borders of the Palestinian state would be, or what steps would be taken to enforce said borders.

This isn't a perfect comparison, but Turkey is recognized by the entire world as illegally occupying Northern Cyprus, but the rest of the world is completely indifferent, and there is no attempt to remove Turkey or enforce Cyprus autonomy.

FWIW Israel's position is that the 1967 borders are not militarily defensible, and are a non starter; and any future Palestinian state would have to address these security concerns. Remember, Israel took the West Bank in 1967 from Jordan after defeating Arab forces that attacked Israel from the West Bank. It is pretty standard that when one nation attacks another and loses land in the counterattack, they dont necessarily get all land back when peace is made, especially if it is deemed militarily important. In fact, it is pretty rare.

Well, it certainly isn't going to happen when half of the so-called state is controlled by a theocratic terrorist organization who has declared a Holy War against Israel. And the other half has no capacity to stop non state actors from waging their own private war against Israel.

It seems that demilitarizing Palestinian society is the bare minimum first step towards creating a viable state. But the rest of the world has no interest in doing what it takes to get there. So here we are.

There are two quasi-states in the land generally called Palestine by the world. And in fact, the article made pains to acknowledge the statements of both Hamas and the PA. So I’m curious if they could even agree among themselves which government should spearhead the reunification process, if there is going to be one.

As i said. I think that to start at the end is ridiculous and there is nothing like certainty about how this will all play out.

The world clearly has an interest which is why countries including possibley France and hopefully soon the uk are recognising a Palestinian state. They may not share your views but I dont see that as a bad thing at all.

Currently netanyahu backed by trump is calling the shots. It's horrific but nothing we can do will stop that for now. We can position ourselves to try to oppose them and get more aid in more quickly but politically it's mostly about afterwards.

I don't see a downside to, in principle, recognizing an independent Palestine nation.

It seems like France believes that Palestine should be disarmed and treated like Japan after WW2. At least that seems to be its suggestion. I find it hard to believe that Hamas would accept that, but it might benefit the Palestinian people.