Israel/Palestine thread

Bro having Rosie over here is bad enough. If vic comes to live in Ireland I'm coming to the US on a fake South African passport to claim asylum.

Owens is clearly an Anti Semite and a conspiraloon and Carlson has engaged in anti Semitic tropes in the past. I'm simply telling you they're not valid sources re Israel as they can easily be seen to have an agenda.

He's talked about how he donates to political causes he supports. Is that not part of the resistance?

The NYT has started using the word "starvation" on the front page, above the fold. That's a significant shift.

No Meals, Fainting Nurses, Dwindling Bab...

and it shows they have known all along what was going on and could have worked to stop it for 2 years.

anyway, I dont think these "humanitarian pauses" to let in a trickle of aid will be used for any purpose other than to continue and perpetuate the slaughter.

and so far no trucks have entered and the aid drops have killed more people than saved. but they will let the food in, bc it can easily be used to trap and murder hundreds of people without much difficulty.

Agreed.

They all have, including the guardian and Atlantic etc.

Netanyahu knows the West won’t do much to deter him from doing what he wants apart from tut tutting.

That’s hilarious that you actually believe Victor donates money to Hamas. Maybe it’s true he tries to or thinks he’s in contact with someone from Hamas.

Gaza is only one front on a wider war that has been going on since 1948. And Netanyahu has been in power for decades, and he has not been shy stating the need to confront the Shia-Iran Axis militarily. As opposed to the Sunni Axis (Hamas notwithstanding, who at this point are more a part of the Iran Axis), where diplomacy is seen as a viable route to peace, and pursued.

Many Israelis/Jews are critical of how Netanyahu has handled the Gaza front. But there is widespread agreement with the overall mission and necessity to confront Iran and its proxies on the battlefield; and the actions Netanyahu has taken on other fronts, such as Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Yemen.

I understand Palestinian sympathizers prefer to compartmentalize the Gaza War and ignore everything going on around it for the last 100 years, as this is most convenient for their ideology. But it is a poor lens to understand Israeli concerns or Netanyahu's overall strategy and tactics.

Your comparisons of Ukraine and Gaza again are nonsensical. There are 100 strategic, tactical and moral reasons why the US would supply Ukrainians with weapons and not supply Hamas. War is not a game where you handicap your own side to allow your enemies to kill more of your side for reasons of 'equity.'

Ironically, Israel/US does supply weapons to the Shabab paramiltiary in Gaza who is helping them fight Hamas; and they are being criticized for it by the left.

Hamas and Russia are on the same side. Israel and Ukraine are on the same side. Good to clear that up for the confused people like Knight (Victor).

^^^Knight has a very different posting style.

You’re right, it’s possible he could be financially supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis and would have good reasons not to tell us. I retract my statement as Victor could be pragmatically maximizing the amount of monetary support to terrorist groups, which would give him good reasons to stay in the US.

Thank you for bringing much-needed nuance to this discussion.

Not altogether. Putin is pro-Israeli for nationalist reasons-- many Israelis are Russian Jews and Russia historically considered itself 'the protector of the Christian holy places in Palestine', a claim which no one else understands but which was the prime cause of the Crimean War. (Russia wanted to attack Turkey, the Muslim imperial power in the Holy Land at the time, and Britain and France joined Turkey in attacking the base of Russia's Black Sea Fleet.)

Also, Putin is on good personal terms with Netanyahu. They get along very well.

Yeah I understand that the actual situation is more nuanced.

On a higher level, Hamas and Russia were both thr initial aggressors in the current conflicts.

There’s a good chance his money is going to Mossad or a scammer in India, if he actually tries. However, Victor will say anything and everything, often complete lies and contradictory statements so who really cares what he claims?

no, you dont understand at all as 57 showed. and it has been posted in this very thread many times that Russia supports Israel in various ways. you are just absolutely impervious to actual information. its how you construct such idiotic takes that Russia and Hamas are on the same side, that Israel isnt doing genocide, and that mass rape occurred by anyone but the Israel prison guards and soldiers.

I actually understand the situation fairly well which is why I’m not pushing back on anything he said. Not everyone views the world in a dichotomous white genocider vs everyone else kind of way.

I dont think you understand it very well considering you just said this.

but if you just parrot 57s posts then you will be a lot closer to accurate than you currently are. so I think we made some progress here.

Despite existing relations between Israel and Russia and Bibi and Putin, Israel’s war with Hamas and Iran weakens Russia’s military capabilities against Ukraine. Israel is also selling defense systems to other nearby NATO countries like Romania.

On top of this, both Russia and Hamas were the aggressors which is what the Knight was getting at originally, but maybe not I’m not really reading his essays closely.

Other developments like Assad’s ousting have been a net negative for Russian influence.

how is Hamas the aggressor when they didnt even exist when Israel started the war in 1948? or more recently, how can they be the aggressor when Israel started a brutal blockade in like 2007?

I will answer since you wont. bc you are a White Supremacist, you deny the right of oppressed people to fight their tormentors.

Additionally, Russia and Iran (Hamas’ handlers) are both members of BRICS and generally aligned against the Western influence.

Ok the main point is undeniable…. far right Israelis engage in propaganda all the time ie that they are “threatened with extinction”. No they are not. Again they are now surrounded by mostly allies and Saudi Arabia has even presented them with intelligence as has Egypt on their enemies. Israel is also nuclear armed and ain’t going nowhere.

This is not the 1960s anymore OK. There is really no Arab assistance to the people of Palestine now otherwise you would have Jordanian and Egyptian jets striking Tel Aviv. There is no war against Israel since 1948.

It is legitimate to be concerned about Jewish supremacist in Israel wanting to steal land in Gaza and fill it with Jewish settlers. So that is why people are accusing Israel of war crimes. It has nothing at all to do with Israel defending itself that is just a nonsense. As clearly, the people of Gaza lack any sort of military capability to occupy Israel it is a joke. You will need to have military jets, tanks, a navy.

Israelis themselves have been genuinely concerned that their leadership allowed October 7 to happen. See another big point is people can support Israel and Zionism while calling out what Many would say is a very dark evil chapter in Israeli history led by Netanyahu which is the siege of Gaza. Tons of countries throughout history have gone through dark chapters.

Btw You just said supply Ukrainians, but then you didn’t say supply Palestinians you said supply Hamas, who says anything about Hamas who have allegedly been allowed to rise and even funded by Israel in the 1980s. This Shabab guy has been accused of stealing and being a drug dealer, but it’s interesting nonetheless. The main point about bringing up Ukraine is to show the difference of how Ukraine has a legitimate military to defend itself, but Gaza does not.

Well there’s also Nazis in Ukraine. But obviously most Ukrainians, like most people of Gaza are good people. So when you have people who support funding Ukraine and also support the Israeli war on Gaza, of which there are quite a few neo conservatives who have these beliefs….. well these folks are immoral and they are clearly hypocrites. The people of Gaza are largely good people…. just like anywhere else in the world. And they’re getting screwed over. Why are they not being supplied with weapons????. I’m sure that western powers could find plenty of Palestinians to support in this endeavor.

We could also even say set aside the weapon. We should see the neo conservatives criticize the radical elements of the IDF for their crimes in Gaza. Again Israel as a state is going nowhere.

It really gets tiring to hear Netanyahu constantly bring up October 7 of which many of his own people Say the Israeli government allowed to happen. I mean, he keeps bringing up October 7 and Hamas and “threats to Israel” when you have so many dead Palestinian women and children it’s a joke. It’s really is a disgrace …. And that is why Israel is losing the support of people in the west.