Israel/Palestine thread

The term was coined in English in the mid-19th century from the French 'reactionnaires' and meant people who didn't think much of the French Revolution, which was indeed a grisly murderfest, and didn't think much of the 1848 business either. Retrospectively, the Duke of Wellington was seen as a reactionary (he lived just long enough to encounter the term, which he wouldn't have minded) and Bonaparte, of course, as a radical.

John Lukacz, in his classic work Five Days in May (about the crucial May 1940 Cabinet debates in which Churchill outmanoeuvred the appeaser Lord Halifax and rejected the enemy's Trojan-horse peace overtures), makes the observation that Churchill was a reactionary and Hitler a radical.

This is a bit simplistic since Churchill had some radical instincts (in 1943 he was the first British politician to propose and name the National Health Service), but Lukacs, living in the US and writing in the 1990s, was evidently much opposed to the bizarre pseudo-religion, medieval in its arcane intolerance and absolutery, that passes for US 'liberalism', let alone the dictator-fancying nastiness of US 'radicalism'.

This is such complete hogwash it's almost 180 degrees back to front.

My guess is Google AI doesn’t have a great answer for this one. Oh well.

Maybe if you ask less asinine questions people will respond to you.

It’s a very apt question given what he’s suggesting.

Doyle makes a lot of hit-and-run insult posts with no context. When he gets called out he accuses people of writing AI posts. I refuse to respond to people who simply lie about other people because they cannot respond with context. Or if they don’t directly quote somebody as that is a means of completely ignoring the important points being made. Doyle is the type of poster who without any provocation gets nasty with people, especially New posters if they present a view he doesn’t agree with. … or they will accuse new posters of just being the “sock puppets” of another account.

I’m totally open to having a conversation with somebody who disagrees. But there is really no point in attempting to converse with somebody who accuses you of being a different account or using AI to write your posts. Totally counterproductive and a waste of time

Though it doesn’t matter what Doyle says ….as the tide is turning against the Israeli government with record numbers of young conservatives turning against the Israeli government for example

“Young Republicans are fueling the GOP's generational divide on Israel”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education...

Also as mentioned this, which I doubt some of the fanatical pro Israel people even respond to or just basically blow it off. I mean, what are they say to those IDF soliders There are some kind of antisemites crazy conspiracy theorists??

“IDF Soldier Suggests Israel LET OCTOBER 7 Happen”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RK_h1C3X2s...

Like to hear the pro Netanyahu folks itt respond to the IDF soldier saying Israel let October 7 happen.

There are millions of young conservative leaning Americans who have a lot of sympathy for Palestinians. These are people who follow the likes of the fresh and fit podcast or Candace Owens, and many more. There’s other forums of alternative media like “breaking points” where millions of young conservatives are following, providing their comments, criticizing Israel saying things like “get America out of AIPAC”

We could even look at some of the recent Fox News videos, talking about Israel. There are tons of people writing in those comments sections “get America out of aipac.” Or showing sympathy for the Palestinian children being starved due to Israel’s siege.

Glenn Greenwald who effectively identifies as a libertarian. He’s the type that supports free speech. He has quite a following on rumble including plenty of young people who are conservative leaning.

But one has to be following what we can call the new media to see this . We could see that western people who are into masculinity, men who are into being an alpha male are taking interest in Muslim majority countries like the gulf states where they believe these countries are rejecting radical leftism, and hanging onto their traditional values. People can say whatever they want about that and criticize that…. that’s fine. But It is undeniable there is a swing in the types of people who respect islam who respect Muslims. And a lot of of them are conservative Christians in the USA.

The alternative media sources show this , other than the mainstream media. A lot of boomer types who only follow Sean Hannity or Mark Levin won’t be aware of this.

Some but not all Boomers respond like crybabies accusing people of antisemitism with no evidence. They will attempt to call someone like Candace Owens a kook….in the face of radicals in Israel and their supporters in the USA openly saying “Palestine should be ethically cleansed, God gave the land to Jews, Muslims are following a seventh century violent religion”

Congrats on finding a soldier with no authority or inside information whose opinion confirms your biases. I don’t know what kind of gotcha you think this is, but i assure you it isn’t that.

There’s also been a renewed interest in finding out what was truly behind 911. It’s being driven in large part by young conservatives, young Christians, who want to get to the bottom of that. And again people can criticize that and say oh that’s just a crazy conspiracy Hole to go down. Totally fine to criticize that. The bottom line is there is a new young generation of conservative Christians questioning 9/11 and perhaps included in that perhaps also separately criticizing This idea that “Muslims are living in the seventh century….or that Islam has not evolved as other religions have.”

Again all of this is well known to people who follow the new media, the fresh and fit podcast, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, Glenn Greenwald and many more. Media outlets that a lot of boomers will not be aware of or will attempt to blow off. And again people can criticize someone like Candace Owens some of if perhaps legit criticism but but no one can deny there is now a large number of young conservatives and young Christians in America who do not support Israel in the aftermath of their siege on Gaza and who have sympathy for Muslims and Palestinians.

Is there some level of antisemitism on the alternative right? Definitely. But clearly it is a small amount. Plus there is more anti-Muslim and anti-arab racism on the neoconservative side.

You just revealed your power level.

its possible but I dont buy it. rather, Oct 7th was a brave moment of heroic resistance against one of the most bloodthirsty cultures in human history akin to rebellions against the Americans, British, French, and Germans at various points in history. Israel didnt need an excuse to try to exterminate the natives, they have been openly doing it for 80 years.

and one thing that violent supremacist bullies hate the most is to be humiliated and Oct 7th was just that. the facade of invincibility is gone. now everyone knows who these people are.

None of this compares to 50,000 dead Palestinians and a systemic effort by the IDF to wipe out so many homes and Palestinian life in Gaza.

I can only guess what you mean by that. … I cited many different influencers. And I’ve also said I don’t agree with everything all of them say. Let’s not go down the BLM cancel culture Road….its akin to saying every person who says they are pro Israel is pro genocide after all some of the politicians in Israel openly support getting all Palestinians outside Gaza and filling it up with Jewish settlers.. That’s not how things work let’s not go down that road. Let’s not judge someone by a 1 minute second segment.

It’s like you got a one minute segment on Twitter compared to 50,000 dead Palestinians what are we talking about here.

Let’s simply ask people for example what they think about Islam or Judaism. Start there. Ask some of the pro Israel people in the thread what their thoughts are on Islam. Ask me or other critic’s of the Israeli government what our thoughts are in Judaism…. and I’ll tell you mine it’s a positive one as I’ve already stated.

And it is upsetting when people quote somebody and respond to a very small portion of the entire post. This is really problematic most especially with Doyle Brunson fan not you. But still if you read my whole post and responded to the whole post, you will see the part where I said folks can criticize the fresh and fit podcast. The point is there is clearly a game change here and that is the many young conservatives and right wing leaning people who no longer support Israel.

Plus, you’re quoting not what Myron Gaynes said but one of his guests which I think is a OF girl? . But again the world is over the BLM cancel culture radical left-wing phenomenon…..

You think making a long post makes it a quality post.

Everyone you cite is a raging jew hater. I’m not trying to cancel them, if I was I would be writing into youtube or something to get their show off the air. I’m criticizing them for their words, and I’m criticizing you for citing raging jew-haters.

Make shorter posts.

Yeah. It looks like Netanyahu really hates how Sinwar gave him the excuse to destroy Hezbollah, Hamas, put a final nail in the coffin of Baathist power in Syria, and push Iran completely out of the Arab world, minus Western Yemen; and completely remake the Middle East exactly how he has been desiring to for the last 40 years.

Sinwar sure showed him who the boss is.

In other news the US, Aizerbaijan and Armenia have signed a historic peace deal whose goal is to build natural gas infrastructure stretching from Qatar to Turkey and ultimately into Europe. Major negative development for Iran.

And this is on top of the Lebanon govt and the rest of the Sunni world putting increasing pressure on Hezbollah to demilitarize to facilitate investment and development of Lebanon in a post Hezbollah world.

Iran is crowing about how they are going to resist the building of the pipelines; but up to 20 million Azeri's live in Iran, so if they took military action it would be risking not only drawing the US directly into a conflict, but also risk further domestic turmoil.

Glenn Greenwald is the farthest thing from a Jew hater. He is Jewish and is a free speech guy. He’s the one who actually stood up for Ed Snowden back in the day. The point I would make is there are many many influencers, including more right wingers today than 20 years ago who are criticizing in Israel. That’s the point it’s not just one person. And indeed it’s a cancel culture tactic to try and single out one statement by one person. I don’t know why you’re doing this because it seems like you have a balanced view in this thread.

Of course a long post doesn’t equal a quality post. I’ve never said that or implied anything like that. I’m just like anyone here providing an opinion.

You can call somebody a raging Jew hater doesn’t make you right.

Lol short attention span much… all up and down this thread the pro Netanyahu people are simply arguing for points. Ignoring the reality on the ground that there is more criticism of Israel than ever before. And it’s coming from the right wing in large part. You are ignoring that and just trying to argue for the sake of “winning”.

Part of the point I’m bringing up is to showcase the young Republicans and young conservatives who are critical of Israeli policy and it’s a large part due to Israel’s siege on Gaza.Regardless of what anybody thinks about them whether they think their anti-Semitic or not That’s not the main point… the main point is this is a game changer and Israel is right now a pariah state in the eyes of many …. Pro Netanyahu Folk should be trying to figure out ways to win people over to Israel instead of calling them anti-Semitic , or complaining about Muslims or Islam you’re presenting a losing argument.

See the hasbara strategy is losing. Their attempt to win people over to support Israel’s policies is a horrible tactic. What they need to do including the hasbara or people who support Israel is actually change Israel’s policy toward Gaza.

the knight you wrote many things so I won't address them all at the same time.

I'll start with the last one. pro Israel / pro bibi people shouldn't try to win the PR war at this stage.

if anyone believes any pro Hamas propaganda he can't be saved at this stage.

there is a massive propaganda machine staging photo and video ops daily in pallywood, and no one who is mentally healthy and rational would believe a single claim made by anyone who at any point was anything but a complete enemy of Hamas.

so you give up on what you can't win (a PR battle against people who are using tropes that existed for centuries to spread blood libels against Jews) and just try to win in the real world as quickly as possible.

winning in the real world means exterminating every single Hamas member and every single Hamas material supporter, as well as cutting off their funding as much as you can. and all their allies/enablers as well.

life goes on for the groypers who decided lately to hate on Israel, and you just wait till the news cycle produces more titillating events for them to focus on. meanwhile you go allin against your actual factual physical enemies who want to genocide you.

that's what bibi is doing and it's working.

I’m making “hit and run” comments yet the Knight is the one coming in hot with the conspiracy theory takes with, no surprise, basically 0 sources. These people don’t live in our reality.

I don’t know anything about any of the talking heads you mentioned but I’d bet their followers hate Jews more than sympathize with the Palestinians, and have a similar disdain for them.

jfc you sound exactly like rafiki, gs3737, BLUE, CV and the other rabid Zionists who left this thread when their claims were debunked. Every criticism of Israel is antisemitic to you and them. It doesn't matter if it comes from a poster here, a former political leader in Israel or Hasidic Jews - they are all antisemites according to you.

He cited these 3 people

Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, Glenn Greenwald and many more

2 of them are among the most antisemites living commentators around (carlson and owens).

I agree that Greenwald instead is the rare example of an anti-israel person who isn't necessarily an antisemite.

But in order to do that you have to be vehemently anti-hamas (and all forms of radical islamic organization) as well as anti-israel, like he is, and like 98-99% of Israel critics aren't

speaking of antisemitism, did you guys see the NYT interview with David Greenblatt the leader of the ADL? not really changing my opinion on the concept.