Israel/Palestine thread

well by Israel's own calculation, around a third of dead were military or security. but if we apply the same criteria that Israel and the West use when they determine credible targets, then almost everyone would qualify. Israel has bragged about killing journalists, judges, diplomats, civil servants, garbage men, farmers, retired or cashiered Hamas fighters and their families. almost everyone killed that day was either a reservist or the family of one. I dont make the rules, Israel does.

this guy https://x.com/cspf1961/ has combed through Israeli articles and social media to find discrepancies for around 300 dead that he thinks makes it very likely they were killed by the Hannibal directive. you can judge for yourself how credible he is.

No Muslims near Israel please, no Muslims in Europe please.

It's almost as if they didn't want Muslims anywhere, full stop.

Victor advocates for an international order where terrorism is acceptable and violent revolution is the primary method for solving international conflict. That’s why he thinks all Israelis are valid targets.

I support a global order in which the US is the primary peacekeeping force and deterrent against violence against our allies.

You’re applying an external critique where I’m judged by the insane leftist standards. I’m applying an internal critique where I hold the insane leftist to their own standards. It’s not the same move we’re making.

Victor is proscribing for Palestinians and Lebanese to support Hamas and Hezbollah, but he sits there in the country he calls a genocidal white supremacist country that it is all being directed for. When have I ever said that the US is evil and genocidal while sitting comfortably in my own home? I accept that we are lucky to be in better conditions than the rest of the world and appreciate our freedoms.

There's a great deal of data about non-violent resistance that has occurred. The Great March of Return (which Israel mowed down) was in Gaza. There's also a lot of creative resistance in the West Bank. See the films Five Broken Cameras or No Other Land. There's also the leader Marwan Barghouti, who has the potential to spark massive non-violent resistance, but is wasting away in an Israeli dungeon.

You're claiming the right to support the assertion of American supremacy onto other nations whether they want it or not, condemning foreign civilians and US troops to death from the safety and comfort of your American home. You're no better than an American General Haig sending troops over the top in World War One. If you had any self-awareness you'd realise the hypocrisy of your position and stfu about foreign situations you've repeatedly shown very little understand of, but alas here we are.

The most amusing part of this is that a central argument of the Tucker Carlson antisemitic right is that Israel/jews are singularly responsible for bringing Muslims into western countries to undermine them.

So Jews are simultaneously responsible for bringing Muslims in and trying to kick them out.

I dont think all Israelis are "valid targets". I am simply applying the same criteria to Israelis that they themselves apply to the indigenous.

Yep we don't want any radical muslim around any western country. That's our preference, and we are willing to use political power to achieve it.

I don’t think I will shutup despite what Hamas and Putin cum guzzlers like yourself tell me to do, thank you very much.

When you dont have an army because you haven’t been allowed to form a government it’s pretty hard to find ways to effectively oppose the ongoing occupation, isn’t it?

People like you remind me of tourists I used to hear in the 80s, usually from Australia and New Zealand, talking about how they travelled through South Africa and couldn’t understand why the black Africans were so unhappy, and why they didn’t do something about it.

Arabs are not “indigenous” to Palestine. Definitionally according to crazy leftist terms they are settler colonialists, and Islam is a settler colonial religion to its core. They mock the actual indigenous (pagans) as people going to hell, while stealing their traditions and culture.

But that literally doesn’t matter at all because they are there now and despite how feeble the claims are to the land on both sides, it’s clear that the status quo sucks and they both need self-determination.

Is this really the best you can do? Show us you're ancient whilst having a dig at me for not supporting the actions of Hamas on October 7th?

How exactly was October 7th EVER going to achieve freedom from their occupiers? Explain it to me like I'm 5.

arabs (with the islam they brought around) were one of the most violent and imperialistic human groups in the history of the world *and that is uncontroversial among historians*.

They managed to conquer a lot of land at lightning speed in the 7-8th centuries and so on. It's all well known and settled history.

Radical communists pick arbitrary historic cutoff to decide what's conquest and what's nativism, every single time with exactly one only goal: put western , european ethnicity people in bad light.

They have no other goals.

So they end up defending objectively worse events than those they contest on western europeans... but they don't care. They never cared. They only need to score points among themselves about how bad western civilization was and is.

I’m not even sure it’s a communist thing, I think it’s a self-hating western thing. It appears that actual communist countries like China despise this type of historical revisionism and view everything in terms of stark realpolitik. They even have derisive terms for western leftists.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baizuo

But again I just think it’s so stupid that in these conversations we just have to pretend that Jewish historical revisionism (some of which is true and some of which is false) is evil colonial white supremacy but Muslim historical revisionism surrounding Al-Aqsa mosque, the Kahba, and various pagan practices, as well as their charges that Christians and Jews fabricated their own spiritual books are not all based off of the worst type of lies to justify massacres and ethnic cleansing campaigns that Muslims have carried out.

Which I believe personally can be reformed (usually with money and diplomacy) but we’re just supposed to take all those claims at face value.

Even the claim that there was some robust Palestinian identity that pre-existed western intervention is just laughable.

You might as well be five. You talk parrot style in received wisdom and cliche and seem to be incapable of and disinterested in independent thought. How old are you btw? I'd guess mid 20s.

you know i use "communist" quite "liberally". Very leftist thing. the self-hating is all leftism in the west.

anyway it's getting tiring. We just need to solve this permanently one way or another, and we should help the smoothest permanent solution to happen. Which ofc is Israel winning in a total sense. Just to stop wasting time discussing about insignificant undeveloped population in irrelevant areas of the world.

It really is evident that someone like Nick Fuentes is the same as quite a significant portion of pro Israel people including Ben Shapiro. The pro Israel people have normalized degrading Muslims by saying things like most of Muslims are radicals, Muslims want to impose on others. It’s the same thing as suggesting Jews want to take over the western Christian world through subversive methods for example.

There are other anti-Jewish viewpoints that remind us of some of the talking points of anti Muslims, such as the following

Like that Jews seek to dominate the goyim(same as infidel in Islam) by bringing in tons and tons of non white immigrants to the western world.

Or saying Jews were responsible for killing millions of Christians in the Soviet Union. Saying Jews control the porn industry, Jews control the media and seek to destroy young Christian men.

It’s quite interesting because the anti Jew like the anti-Muslim is completely convinced that what they’re saying is normal and totally fine. Like saying Muslims or the Quran seeks to completely dominate the world or that Islam allow sexual assault. They actually think that it’s normal to talk like this or they know that it is bigotry and they simply don’t care.

And there might even be those to say “you know what I’m not against Islam, but look at all of these Muslims who sexually assault or molest kids”. That’s actually the same approach as somebody who says “look at all of these Jews, who are pedophiles or hey look at this article that shows Israel protecting American Jewish pedophiles”. “Judaism allows and encourages pedophilia. Just look at this example from the Torah.”

As if all Jews or most Jews are pedophiles there is no logic to this.

Of course both the anti Jew and anti Muslim are wrong… they take the most extreme interpretations of a religion to suit their agenda. Or they simply outright lie or mis characterize history to suit their agenda.

There are pro Israel people who are attempting to win Muslims over. These are people who for example say hey you know that the Quran speaks positively of Jews and even says that Israel should be a Jewish state. That’s a really interesting and honestly a worthy approach.

Compare that to the pro Israel people who say hey you know Islam is a religion which allows sexual assault and enslaving non-Muslims.

Well here is a great example of the astounding hypocrisy of Israeli political leaders. On one hand they complain about antisemitism often where there’s no evidence of it. Somebody criticizes Israel policy , they start screaming antisemitism. And yet above one of their main politicians, a former Prime Minister by the way is saying anti-Muslim stuff. No different than suggesting you know Judaism is attempting to subvert the western world and enslave the Goyim aka infidels through Hollywood, the media, the porn industry and other subversive methods.

Man why doesn’t Bennet be like other Jews and say hey you know the Quran speaks very positively of Jews and says Israel should be a Jewish state. It’s simply mind-boggling why doesn’t the guy prop up these type of statements. He is choosing to go down the road he is on.

You have various empires of history of the Roman empire, the ottoman empire, the British empire, which were very diverse filled with different ethnicities. And of course, the modern day United States, a melting pot of cultures… They were and are strong , they were honorable… the great Roman empire which began in Europe expanded to Africa, and the Middle East and it had Arab emperors like Philip the Arab. They weren’t perfect. Nobody is but they took on tons of different cultures. Anybody regardless of their color or faith could rise up the ranks.

and then you got these Israeli politicians who apparently don’t like diversity. They attack it and then amazingly at the same time they complain about bigotry against Jews with no evidence. Still I truly believe most Jews in Israel when it comes down to it would be accepting of different cultures. …. we’re all human in the first place and we choose what our religion is. What our hobbies are. And so on and so forth.

“LEAKED AUDIO: Israeli Mil Head Celebrates Killing Kids”

https://youtu.be/ZNBWlT2zvW4?si=_sBTxoYr...

Look at this IDF demon^

An interesting claim when one of the three partners in my firm is an Arab Muslim (aka Palestinian)

insert "some of my best friends joke"...

You have the brain of a bird and the analytical ability to match. What are you talking about?

Jal looks down on others for their way of thinking and expressing themselves. Now I have truly seen it all.

Ok, I will explain it to you like you’re five.

People under extreme circumstances with no hope of self determination often resort to terrorism. You have internet access (unfortunately). Use it to find lots of examples.