President Donald Trump

President Donald Trump

I assume it's still acceptable to have a Trump thread in a Politics forum?

So this is an obvious lie - basically aimed at

105 Views
28 April 2019 at 04:18 AM
Reply...

39491 Replies


Earlier posts are available on our legacy forum HERE

Another day, another bad jobs report. Shocking I tell you. Shocking that all the experts and economist were spot on w/ what Trump's policies would do the American economy, and that a know-nothing, uncurious, un-read president, didn't have the answers.

From Paul Krugman this morning: Why Does the Right Reject Progress?

Earlier this week I interviewed Peter Hotez and Michael Mann, authors of a new book, coming out next week, titled “Science under siege.” I’ll be posting that interview Saturday.

Both men are eminent scientists who have played key roles in public policy debates — Hotez over vaccines, Mann over climate change. They wrote their book to fight back against the tide of reaction against science. And this tide of reaction is especially tragic because there is, or should be, a lot of good news right now. In both their fields, reactionaries are trying to strangle technologies that have the potential to make the world a much better place.

As Hotez points out, vaccines in general have done incredible good, and the new mRNA vaccines are a scientific and medical miracle — yet RFK Jr. and his allies are trying to kill both vaccines and thousands, maybe millions of people. Mann, famous for his “hockey stick” chart showing the recent spike in global temperatures, has documented the danger from climate change. Advances in renewable energy, however, have made tackling global emissions far easier than anyone imagined — yet Trump and co. are actively suppressing the adoption of this technological breakthrough.

What I realized after our conversation is that the problem they discuss, of reactionaries who both refuse to accept progress and try to block it, goes well beyond their specific fields, and even science in general. America is now ruled by people who hate progress of all kinds, economic and social as well as scientific. They refuse to acknowledge the progress we’ve made on multiple fronts and are doing their best to reverse it.

Why? I don’t have a full theory, only some scattered thoughts, which I’ll get to at the end. First, though, let me explain the progress I have in mind.

When I talk about progress, my baseline is the early 1990s. Why? At that point the brief euphoria of Morning in America had evaporated. Yes, inflation was down, and the U.S. economy experienced a rapid recovery from the severe double-dip recession of 1979-82. But then we were back to sluggish growth and rising income inequality, plus a pervasive sense that America was being overtaken by other nations.

In 1992 the economist Lester Thurow had a huge bestseller in his book “Head to head: The economic battle among Japan, Europe, and America,” a battle Thurow asserted America was losing. That same year Michael Crichton published “Rising sun,” a novel whose premise was that the future belonged to Japan.

How did that gloom work out? Here’s the percentage growth in real GDP from 1992 to 2024 for Thurow’s three contenders, Japan, the European Union and the United States:


Donald Trump says that other countries have been cheating and taking advantage of us all these years. If so, they’ve been doing a remarkably bad job of it.

What this chart doesn’t show, but is easy to document, is that much of this U.S. outperformance can be attributed to U.S. success in adopting new technology and raising productivity, establishing a clear lead over other wealthy nations. The rise of China poses a new threat to U.S. dominance, but that’s another story. What’s clear is that the doom-and-gloom narrative of the early 90s was all wrong.

It's also worth mentioning that the victory we won against inflation in the 1980s has proved durable. In my third primer on stagflation I noted that while year-to-year inflation has fluctuated since the 1980s, expected inflation has remained low and stable, largely because people believe that an independent Federal Reserve won’t let inflation get out of control again:


I’m not saying that everything about the U.S. economy has been great. High and rising inequality means that the benefits of growth have been very unevenly shared. Some regions have been left behind as the shift to a knowledge-based economy has left parts of the heartland — and the people who live there — effectively stranded. All in all, we have far more misery than a rich, successful economy should.

Yet the people in charge won’t acknowledge our past successes. By attacking science, education and, yes, immigration — not to mention trying to force us back to obsolete, polluting energy sources like coal — they are doing their best to undermine the pillars of that success. And by attacking the Fed’s independence, they’re also doing their best to bring back stagflation.

Economics isn’t the only area in which America has defied the pessimism that prevailed a few decades ago.

I often make fun of right-wingers who insist that our major cities are all crime-ridden hellscapes (although this delusion has gotten less funny now that the Trump administration is using it as a justification for effectively invading Los Angeles, Washington and soon, reportedly, Chicago.) But 30 or 35 years ago big cities were a lot closer to that dystopian vision than they are now. Jeff Asher recently posted a chart of murder rates through August in several major cities going back to 1960:


Clearly, something went right — very, very right — in America’s big cities. The truth is that we don’t know exactly what went right, but the progress in public safety and, I would say, the general quality of urban life should be undeniable.

You may say, never mind the statistics, cities don’t feel safer. But they do. Try reading descriptions of urban life from the late 1980s or early 1990s — say, Tom Wolfe’s “The Bonfire of the Vanities,” published in 1987, a bit early for my comparison, but close enough. The whole plot centers on how dangerous New York was or was perceived to be. A colleague tells the novel’s protagonist, “If you want to live in New York, you’ve got to insulate, insulate, insulate” — that is, separate yourself from the “trenches of the urban wars.” Well, I’m writing this from an outdoor café in New York, watching the pedestrians go by, and I don’t see people trying desperately to insulate themselves from city life.

Why can’t the right accept progress when it happens, and try to build on it? Some of it is special-interest politics, notably fossil fuel interests trying to stop the rise of alternative energy. But a lot of it, I believe, is visceral. I’ve written before that MAGA types see renewable energy as woke and insufficiently masculine: real men burn stuff.

Relatedly, Trump and MAGA see everything in terms of punishment and fear. They can’t accept the idea that America prospered, not by using its power to dominate other nations, but by making and adhering to international agreements that kept world markets open. They can’t accept the idea that we can manage the economy by leaving monetary policy in the hands of technocrats who don’t take Trump’s orders. They can’t accept the idea that cities can be relatively safe, not because armed men are keeping everyone in line, but because most Americans — whatever their national origin or the color of their skin — are decent people more inclined to get along with their neighbors than to hate them.

America isn’t utopia, by a long shot. But we’ve made a lot of progress. Unfortunately, the people now in charge are determined to ruin as much as they can.

MUSICAL CODA




In the last few days 2-3 staunchly right wing outlets have released implications that Trump is deeply involved with Epstein.

How long until hes fully thrown to the wolves and we get Thiels end game of Vance?


by coordi

How long until hes fully thrown to the wolves and we get Thiels end game of Vance?

Does Vance look like he's capable of that kind of ruthlessness?


by Trolly McTrollson

Does Vance look like he's capable of that kind of ruthlessness?

I dunno. Trump's extreme narcissism coupled with off the scale sociopathy is really hard to duplicate.


It seems like trump is arguing that the democrats should have done something about epstein because they knew about it and in the same breath they are making it all up.


re: economy. As with everything else, trump's narcissism dictates how he handles it. To him, other countries are meanies and should be punished. He has absolutely no idea what a win-win situation might be. It is always win-lose which quite often turns into lose-lose.

His hammering of the fed stems from his myopic view of interest rates. He only sees them as a vehicle to get cheaper financing on his business grifts. He has no idea how they effect the overall economy and frankly could give a ****.

He's just as dumb as a rock. A pox on everyone that voted for this clown.


by Trolly McTrollson

Does Vance look like he's capable of that kind of ruthlessness?

Vance is the ultimate milquetoast and will do whatever the highest bidder tells him, but I wonder what the couches were like on Epsteins plane and island.


by Trolly McTrollson

Does Vance look like he's capable of that kind of ruthlessness?

Hes already sold his soul to the Devil so hes probably pot committed, but that is the question

I don't think hes capable of keeping the cult together even if it turns out he can be wantonly cruel


The cruelty mixed with a ton of rhetoric might be enough.


by coordi

Hes already sold his soul to the Devil so hes probably pot committed, but that is the question

I don't think hes capable of keeping the cult together even if it turns out he can be wantonly cruel

You mean...JD Vance is ****ing Satan??? 😮


by biggerboat

It seems like trump is arguing that the democrats should have done something about epstein because they knew about it and in the same breath they are making it all up.

Yes same logic has Biden didn’t know where he was while simultaneously was a mastermind of controlling the DOJ and everything else ….


by biggerboat

It seems like trump is arguing that the democrats should have done something about epstein because they knew about it and in the same breath they are making it all up.

Doesn't have to make any sense. The MAGA boys and gals will accept anything he throws at them as gospel.

He can not die soon enough.


by coordi

In the last few days 2-3 staunchly right wing outlets have released implications that Trump is deeply involved with Epstein.

How long until hes fully thrown to the wolves and we get Thiels end game of Vance?

No chance of the bolded imo. With the possible exception of video of him having sex with someone under the age of 16, I don't think there is anything Epstein-related that could theoretically result in Trump leaving office. Teasing the disclosure and then backing off it obviously was a mistake, but I don't see any evidence that his supporters actually care about his behavior toward women.


by Rococo

I don't see any evidence that his supporters actually care about his behavior toward women.

If they did, we'd probably have noticed before now.


by coordi

In the last few days 2-3 staunchly right wing outlets have released implications that Trump is deeply involved with Epstein.

How long until hes fully thrown to the wolves and we get Thiels end game of Vance?

I doubt Vance is the end game


by Luciom

I am happy i have less depth in mumbojumbo that can't apply to real life than he does. Not everyone likes to make his living by sucking the public tits (i would feel like a monster if i did) , which means working for any institution that takes public money.

Then why are you clinging to the socialist experiment known as Italy in the EU? You could be living as a fully self-sufficient entity all on your own somewhere--island, boat etc. putting your beliefs to the true test.


by 57 On Red

If they did, we'd probably have noticed before now.

What if I told you they actually like what they see


Forget about not caring. They actively like it. Grab ‘em by the pussy sold merch…


by Rococo

No chance of the bolded imo. With the possible exception of video of him having sex with someone under the age of 16, I don't think there is anything Epstein-related that could theoretically result in Trump leaving office. Teasing the disclosure and then backing off it obviously was a mistake, but I don't see any evidence that his supporters actually care about his behavior t

The men appreciate it. The women just think that's how all men act.


I usually hate the, Imagine if Obama did X argument, but....

Trump Never Told Congress About Disastrous SEAL Mission in North Korea:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trum...


Obama is known for a drone strike program that killed 90% civilians by US's own internal intelligence. and he is known for the massive expansion of JSOC and its targeted murder program. like, you couldnt have picked a worse example for a "muh Obama" argument than this.


by Victor

Obama is known for a drone strike program that killed 90% civilians by US's own internal intelligence. and he is known for the massive expansion of JSOC and its targeted murder program. like, you couldnt have picked a worse example for a "muh Obama" argument than this.

And Congress was never told about any of that?


by chillrob

And Congress was never told about any of that?

Why do you think congress wasn't told about it? They were probably happy about it.


Thurow was a psycopath who insisted growth was 0 sum in the USA in 1980 (lol wtf). A negationist of the most basic elements of economics, the only person in economics who got the clout he did while being so constantly wrong about everything is probably Navarro (the pro tariff ****** Trump is listen to these days).


Reply...