[WPN] Americas Cardroom, BCP, TruePoker Ex-Official Discussion Thread

Anyone got any opinions on what the ACR NL games nl25-nl100 have been in the last 3 years?

I havent played seriously since about 2015 since solvers really started coming into play and make a noticeable difference. Played a little during covid and thought the games were meh to okay. How are games now compared to 2020 or pre 2015 if those people are even here?

...are they the worst in history?
...mostly shitty just stay away?
...not terrible, often some good games going?
...better than people think?

bitcoin cashout mostly a nothingburger issue?

Probably best to scan-read the last 3000 or so posts in this thread to gain a more balanced general review.

Anyone have issues with ACR balance not matching deposits? ive had a handful of deposits where I'm missing a small portion.

Anyone have contacts with people that can make changes happen to games?

I would really like to see PLO All-In or fold be changed to flop start instead of preflop. Flop start PLO AoF is a deceptively fun and beatable game and this is how it is offered in the few places it is offered.

If you are using Crypto you will 99% of the time have some sort of smallish discrepancy due to the markets moving up and down so aggressive throughout the day. ACR used to take upwards of I believe like 20 different coins but I wish one of them would still be Solana...very low transaction fees, extremely fast transactions and sure it was volatile just like all the other coins--typically you wouldn't be subjected to that matter as much because of the fast transaction times.

So typically if you are using an exchange (BNB, CDC, CB or even some non KYC ones) and rightfully filtering it out through a wallet of some sort then onto ACR between all those handshake confirmations...assuming you are using ETH, BTC or LTC there is value that will be lost somewhere down the line.

Now if you are NOT using a Crypto currency and still getting a lower balance not making your deposit just disregard what I said and contact support.

They wont change anything lol. U are not tht important.

My deposits are almost always to the exact penny using crypto.

Depends what Crypto you use and the gas fee.

this is what its like playing on ACR nowadays

its gotten infinitely worse for MTTs

i don't know why i think its magically going to get better. But it really is Brazil's Cardroom

Am I seeing this right? you jumping to conclusions based on an 82 MTT sample?

So I'm guessing you thought things were fine when you were the one 400bb over ev, but now that you're the one 400bb below, it's a problem?

I don't care about his graph; this site is trash. Esp because of every table is stables full Brazilians, Argentinas, Russians etc. I get shocked when I see two fellow USA players at my tables. I'm sure it is all just a big coincident though right?

Xenophobia intensifies. Can't wait for those 'MAKE AMERICASCARDROOM GREAT AGAIN' hats.

Before any more complains about the site having too many folks from abroad, remember that ACR is based in Costa Rica, and his owner Phil Nagy too, probably paying taxes there. Cheers!

Yea sure, 'muricans don't cheat and their ethical standards are higher than those from other countries. That's not a xenophobic POV at all. I could name a couple well known 'murican poker players with let's say, 'dubious' ethical standards that became public but doubt that changes anything in your mind.

Such a shame you can't beat the games bro, go ahead and blame it on people from abroad if it makes you feel less bad.

My first poker study group had players from 5 different countries.

Vlad was from somewhere Russian, nice guy , great player, never cheated as far as I know.

In one study session he mentioned he was making a cheat sheet for a test at university the next day. Someone asked why not just study?

He said didn’t need the cheat sheet but that cheating was the Russian way. He was sorta joking but I believed him.

He was beating NL50 at the time and said that he was making more than the doctor in his town.

The strength of WPN rooms is that you can find players from almost every country in the world where online poker is allowed.
With only American and Canadian players, or only Americans? well..in any case, with only these two countries, WPN rooms would be something completely different. for the worse, obviously.

I mean, it's totally true that the incentive to cheat is much higher for someone in Moldova or Estonia then for someone from Dallas Texas. The stakes you need to cheat and not get caught in America are much higher to be worthwhile and you're much more likely to get caught. When you can run a bot that makes $2K a month and be rich with little worry of detection the incentive is much higher. That's not even getting in the cultural acceptance that goes back to the days of the Soviet Union.

My green line swings above and below my yellow line all the time, and the swings can be quite a bit bigger than 400bbs. That's why there's a yellow line in the first place. If they just always tracked with each other, then there'd be no point.

I'm not even sure what you're implying, lol, but US players abandoning the online scene has been a known phenomenon since Black Friday.

The few places where people do feel comfortable playing poker enough to make a living off of it have juicy geo-locked games so there'd be no point playing on WPN.

I think the two main differences between the US and others is:

1) The US vs the rest of the world - BF blew up the US online poker scene, and now the prototypical US pro is some 5/T live player who thinks solvers are for nerds. This is why the "euro-sicko" prototype exists live because even live euro players probably beat 100z+ on the side.

2) First Worlders / G7ers vs the rest of the world - You basically touched on this and I don't even necessarily disagree with anything you're saying in a vacuum, it's just a very one-sided characterization. Non-G7 natives are more incentivized to try at 50nl-200nl at all--fairly or otherwise.

The other side of the coin of your characterization is that G7 natives are just lazy little gits who think 1 hour of solver study a month entitles them to beat the rake against players who do this for a living, and if they're losing than it must be because everyone else is cheating. No way someone else out there is smarter and working waaaaaay harder than you!

I say this respectfully as a fellow pre-BF winner-turned-live-crusher who couldn't beat WPN for years and has posts in here complaining about it.

But "working" is so intertwined with certain forms of cheating. It's a wide open secret CFPs share databases, for example. On the one hand, a G7 native prolly wouldn't even have the hustle-and-grind mindset necessary to get any value out of a 100 million hand database; on the other hand, STOP CHEATING Y'ALL!

Totally agree. The same incentive to cheat is also the same incentive for them to try really, really hard. I've played on WPN since BF and have done pretty well and have met a lot of very good eastern euro players that are 100% legit. I've also got fleeced (and done some fleecing) of endless bots out of Eastern Europe. I tag every single Russian, Belarussian, Modlovan, Ukrainian, etc purple until I determine if I think they are legit or a bot because it got so bad.

Yes. This is all true, but the broad brush of simple simple criticism of a religion =Xenophobia is completely ridiculous as the bot farm that stole over 10MM from the midstakes ACR player pool was 95% Eastern European.

Also a lot of Brazilian study groups that share player pool tendencies to exploit them is unethical but widespread so OK(?)

Not saying I can’t study hard Lee or play better at all. A lot of that does fall on me.

However studying solvers 6hours a day to beat the field of the your Typical 33-55$ field because that’s what it takes to keep up with bots and grinder “study groups” is not worth it to this American fish.

Just wanted to point out some flaws in the argument of RaCisT XenOpHobIc American is more nuanced and worth looking into.

ACRs complicity in the allowing of that to happen is a whole other nut to crack.

But if you can beat it still good on you

I mean, the post they were responding to was just complaining about playing with foreigners and almost literally ended with a giant “COINCIDENCE?!” I think it’s fairer to say the person they were responding to was the one painting a broad brush and the response doesn’t necessarily mean they simply equate all skepticism of anyone from other countries to xenophobia.

Anyway, not even sure how much we should be going back and forth on this here or it should go in a separate thread, or I guess it doesn’t matter because we’ve been abandoned by WPN to quibble among ourselves anyway.

Exactly. I replied to 'Billy723' because he was just complaining about playing in tables where there were not enough 'fellow americans'. It was not a complain about potential bot rings or colluders, just having too many foreigners on a site that allows foreigners. It felt to me like if someone complaining that his local McDonalds or WalMart in the US has too many foreigners and not enough 'muricans.

Don't think anyone can disagree that former Soviet bloc nations are bot paradises (Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus, etc). Now about study groups, those are from all around the world, and there are many US based sites that offer coaching, staking, etc. Twoplustwo is full of 'muricans and used to be the go-to for poker strategy up until early 2010s, is just that people nowadays get better with solvers, not discussing strategy on a public poker forum.

Getting mad because players that study the game play on your site is silly and there's nothing to be done about it: as the game gets more popular and with proliferation of tools that help to study it, it's inevitable that the level will rise. Complaining about cheaters and RTA users is totally understandable and I think we're all on the same boat that those should be harshly penalized. That said, I accepted long time ago that playing on sites like ACR means that you'll be facing cheaters more often than if you play PS.com or GG and there's not much to do about it, the day I feel it's too much and I can't beat the game because of it I'll move my action elsewhere.