Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Well, according to Google AI:
In 1850, the population of Palestine was estimated to be around 300,000 to 360,000 people, consisting of approximately 300,000 Muslims, 27,000 Christians, and 13,000 Jews.
Total Population: Estimates for the total population in 1850 range from about 300,000 to 360,000.
Religious Breakdown:
Muslims: Approximately 300,000.
Christians: Around 27,000.
Jews: About 13,000.
There are no precise population figures for Palestine in 1920, as the first official census was conducted in 1922. However, data from a 1922 census showed the total population was approximately 757,182, with around 590,390 Muslims, 83,794 Jews, and 73,024 Christians. Estimates from 1918 suggest the total population was around 660,000, which is a reasonable estimate for 1920.
--So in a 70 year period that was marked by Jewish Zionists buying swamp and desert land and developing it (with virtually no development being done by local Arab farmers); the Arab population increased by over 300,000; while the Jewish population increased by 60,000.
Israel didn't yet exist but the Balfour declaration in 1917 was a key zionist event
Just as important was the US and other western nations completely blocking immigration of refugees around this time period, and Britain and the US encouraging Jewish refugees to go to Palestine.
The large Jewish migration into the US actually happened before Zionism became popular. And all indications are if the US hadn't closed its borders refugees would have just continued going there.
A minority of Jewish refugees were motivated by religious reasons to relocate to Israel. But most would have preferred to move to another developed Western nation with unlimited open land as opposed to an undeveloped Arab desert, if given the option. And we know this because this is exactly what happened until the US closed its borders.
For many Jewish refugees during this period immigration to Israel was an act of necessity as there was no where else to go during the massive forced population transfers that were taking place during this time period, which I discussed a couple posts above.
Polish speaking refugees who found themselves on the wrong side of new national borders were told to go to the new nation state of Poland. Germany speaking refugees who found themselves inside the borders of Poland were told to go to Germany. Jews on both sides were told to go to Palestine.
Obviously the substinence goat herders and olive farmers living in Palestine at the time weren't consulted in all of this, but that is generally how the world worked then, and still generally does today. Even today in places like Saudi Arabia and UAE nomadic tribes are being forcibly removed from their ancestral lands to develop cities for European tourists.
Right. A lot of Jews immigrated to the US and many of those that went to Palestine ended up leaving due to sickness and just the difficulty in settling the land.
Well, according to Google AI:In 1850, the population of Palestine was estimated to be around 300,000 to 360,000 people, consisting of approximately 300,000 Muslims, 27,000 Christians, and 13,000 Jews. Total Population: Estimates for the total population in 1850 range from about 300,000 to 360,000.Religious Breakdown:Muslims: Approximately 300,000.Christians: Around 27,000.Jews:
Hi, using google means it’s no longer your opinion.
I wanted to know what you thought population levels were without using google and then discuss how your argument formed off of those ideas.
i mean how would anyone know specifics about that without researching it. the f. why do you think this is a gotcha
You could just read into the history of the region but I guess that’s way too much to expect. 57 on red provided a very biased and one sided interpretation of the establishment of Israel.Regardless, if you think Israel is going to disappear because of a technicality in its creation, you’re going to be disappointed. It’s here now and is much more tangible than any idea of a Pa
What's the reality going to be when they stop receiving aid and lose their "allies". A term I use extremely lightly given what they contribute to said allies. Looking at you USS Liberty...
Hamas ain’t going nowhere.
i mean how would anyone know specifics about that without researching it. the f. why do you think this is a gotcha
I didn’t ask for the actual specifics of reality. I asked for what he thought. He bases his opinion off of what he thinks so I prefer to start there. If he has an opinion, then sees the numbers, then keeps the opinion is much different if we quantify the opinion and compare to the numbers and then compare final outcomes.
Clearly you needed that explained to you.
No rules of engagement in Gaza.
Guardian analysis in August of the IDF’s intelligence data showed that by the reckoning of Israeli military officials, 83% of those killed in Gaza were civilians, a historic high for modern conflicts,
Looks like Naama Lazimi is an antisemite. Anyone else who made the claims she made was labeled one.
When will they learn....
What's the reality going to be when they stop receiving aid and lose their "allies". A term I use extremely lightly given what they contribute to said allies. Looking at you USS Liberty...
Read through the thread. You’re the last in a long list of people suggesting Israel is going to cease to exist when all of its “allies” abandon it at some point in the future. A commonality between all of the posters suggesting this is that they have very little idea of how that situation plays out. I’m guessing your position is based more on wishful thinking than being rooted at all in reality.
The USS liberty incident happened 60 years ago and the only context it gets brought up in is off the wall antisemitic conspiracy theories. Good job exposing yourself?
These bozos will mention the USS liberty, but then have no opinion on the US cozying up to the Saudis.
It’s also funny how obvious it is that the conflict exists entirely online for these people. If you speak to real people in the wild about the Israel Palestine conflict no one is going to mention or even know about the USS Liberty. That’s cool that you watched a YouTube video about it but you don’t realize that no one actually cares and you don’t have any idea why any one should.
1
Although there is no contradiction if they believe 911 was an inside job (done by the US or Israel obviously)
For fun and profit.
Nothing like watching Doyle******son work very hard to spread his pro Israel propaganda only for it to fall on deaf ears.
Daniel, the commander of an IDF tank unit:
“Israeli soldiers have described a free-for-all in Gaza, with civilians killed at the whim of individual officers. If you want to shoot without restraint, you can,” he says in an ITV documentary on Gaza.
What's the reality going to be when they stop receiving aid and lose their "allies". A term I use extremely lightly given what they contribute to said allies. Looking at you USS Liberty...
The irony is that Israel wasn't a particularly strong ally in 1967 and didn't receive military aid at that time.
And bringing Israel into the US sphere of influence and making it an ally was a decision made by Nixon/Kissinger several years later for pro US reasons (counteracting Soviet influence in the region).
It is kind of wild how bad faith antisemites are just completely making up history to support their ideology. The USS Liberty incident has nothing to do with current US/Israel relations, and is not a testament to how good of an "ally" Israel is or has been since they became part of the US sphere of influence in 1973.
And the bad faith alternate history of the incident isn't even accurate. The USS Liberty was a US spy ship that was spying on Israel/Egypt in the middle of a war, unbeknownst to Israel. Which is fine. As I said, we weren't even particularly aligned with Israel at that time.
The only issue is whether Israel/ the pilots recognized it was a US vessel when they attacked it. The official narrative, which was officially accepted by the US, is that they didn't. The conspiracy is they did. But regardless, it has no bearing now how close of an ally Israel has been since it became more aligned with the US several years later.
To make her look like an evil witch. She never said any such thing in any interview, and the people meming it on Facebook and Insta can't provide the video of her saying it, because she didn't. It's an anti-semitic fabrication. But what she did say is that all deaths of Palestinian children at the hands of the IDF are the fault of Hamas, which is the usual feeble bureaucratic blather to excuse a campaign fought on what may have been genocidal lines of 'collective punishment' and certainly not on the basis of any recognisable military logic.
Also, speaking to Piers Morgan, she attempted to claim that any suggestion of the IDF killing children (which they patently have done, a lot) was a 'blood libel'. This is approximately as absurd and malicious as the fabricated quote she didn't really say.
Hotovely is a ****ing monster. She called the Nakba an "Arab lie" and launched an unexpected attack on the (Muslim) mayor of London, accusing him of "spouting Hamas propaganda" for talking about suffering in Gaza (Sadiq Khan's office responded accurately that he has "repeatedly" condemned Hamas).
However I can't find any source for the quote cited, so even though she probably does hold these views I retract it.
