GTO+/CardRunnersEV?
GTO+/CardRunnersEV?
8
zs

GTO+/CardRunnersEV?

This is the support thread for CardRunnersEV, which is hand EV analysis software.

16 March 2008 at 05:11 PM
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954 Replies

8
zs


by DeuceOTR m

Hi scylla,I have couple of suggestion that in my opinion will improve GTO+ by huge margin and will be really useful. I'll try to make it as short as possible.1. I searched for EQR in this topic and found out that alot of people have already asked for the display of this stat and I think it's really crucial and easy to implement, I know I can plot the range in EV and equity line

One thing that we could maybe do here is provide it as text: Strat. / EV / Eq, which can be clicked. And possibly a keyboard shortcut. The other two options (Absolute/Relative and Classic/Pure) probably don't need a faster way of selecting them, given that the user chooses one or the other for longer periods of time.


by DeuceOTR m

2. While the toggle buttons are very useful and UI friendly it makes it very clumsy when there are more than two options, for example when I'm looking for EV heatmap and want to go back to strategy I need to toggle another time to skip to the equity heatmap and another time to go back to strategy, beyond the fact this is inefficient this is also limits you in the number of data

Perhaps a toggle on the EV tab, with a mouseover hint as to what it does?


by DeuceOTR m

3. When I nodelock a certain node in the sim and want to examine the differences in strategy between GTO and the nodelocked sim I'm snapping the matrix before the nodelock and than compare, this is really inefficient and I know GTOW has a node comparison feature doing exactly that and I think it will be amazing to have:

I don't immediately see any space for such a feature.
Perhaps if you press a button, a window opens up with screenshots of the matrices prior to locking and after?


by scylla m

One thing that we could maybe do here is provide it as text: Strat. / EV / Eq, which can be clicked. And possibly a keyboard shortcut. The other two options (Absolute/Relative and Classic/Pure) probably don't need a faster way of selecting them, given that the user chooses one or the other for longer periods of time. Perhaps a toggle on the EV tab, with a mouseover hint as to

Your solutions sounds great!
Hope to see them soon


Yes, +1 to what Deuce suggested, EQR was requested so often now and it is so crucial, so really consider adding it scylla ��

Another thing I really like to see being added is the option to show EV in % of pot capture. Why is it so important? -> A 1BB pot loss mistake in a single raised pot on the flop, where pot size will be something around ~5-6BB is a huge blunder, a 1BB pot loss in a 300BB pot on the river is whatever. I always have to calc EV% by hand, which is a real pain in the ass tbh.

Competitors have it like this:


Image shows that betting 125% will have an EV of 1.31 and checking will result in 1.66. Pot is 5.5. Okay, not very helpful. You can see big sizes loses EV, but to know how dramatic it really is, you'd have to do the maths.


with a simple toggel it now shows EV%, and we see that the big bet option loses 7% of the pot compared to the max EV option of checking (7% is HUGE).

I think what will be the perfect solution is to add a toggle here


where we can switch between classic EV and EV%

I'd love to see that feature added and I hope it isn't to complicated to add πŸ˜‰


by Fat_Vicious m

Yes, +1 to what Deuce suggested, EQR was requested so often now and it is so crucial, so really consider adding it scylla ��Another thing I really like to see being added is the option to show EV in % of pot capture. Why is it so important? -> A 1BB pot loss mistake in a single raised pot on the flop, where pot size will be something around ~5-6BB is a huge blund

Ok, we’ll consider adding this as an output option as well.
There are a few challenges involved, but I think we can come up with a workable way to switch between output modes.



its possible to add "rounding tool" for all turns or rivers like "incentives"?


by Mates. m

its possible to add "rounding tool" for all turns or rivers like "incentives"?

We can apply rounding after the solve, but not during it — rounding mid-solve would prevent the solver from converging.
If we add rounding post-solve, it would probably be best applied as a visual display option only, rather than something that changes the actual values.




Hello, i wanted to find out what is betting frequency for few hand categories combined
I found that it is almost possible, but still not enough

In main window we can pick separatly lets say FD and see what is betting freq for it
But if we want to pick FD OESD and GS - we cant do it. Then we should go to "compare range" tab. where it's possible to pick any types of hands combined

But there are no digits for bet/check but only a colour bar. It changes when i pick something else , so that mean this bar represents a freq

Scylla , cound you add digits please. Or mb there are any other way to see combined freq and you can tell this please

edit
but the most usefull would be if you can add feature to pick many categories in main window


by relite m

Hello, i wanted to find out what is betting frequency for few hand categories combined I found that it is almost possible, but still not enoughIn main window we can pick separatly lets say FD and see what is betting freq for itBut if we want to pick FD OESD and GS - we cant do it. Then we should go to "compare range" tab. where it's possible to pick any types of hands combine

Ok, we’ll take a look at this later today and evaluate how straightforward it would be to adjust. Regarding selecting multiple categories in the main editor, we can probably create a workaround using a custom stat that’s drawn off-screen. We’ll review this as well, although it would require interface changes that may conflict with other features β€” so we may need a bit more time to assess this.


by scylla m

Ok, we’ll take a look at this later today and evaluate how straightforward it would be to adjust. Regarding selecting multiple categories in the main editor, we can probably create a workaround using a custom stat that’s drawn off-screen. We’ll review this as well, although it would require interface changes that may conflict with other features β€” so we may need a bit more time

You know what , i've set categories that i needed as a custom. And it works great
So not a big deal in my previous request tbf πŸ˜€


Is it possible to nlock IP and ralalculate turn strategy for OOP without recalculating strategies OTR for both players ?

in pio it's called "mes" (max exploit strategy)






What is the difference between gto2 file and the previous GTO.document?

The GTO2 files take forever to work and most of the time they do not even open.


by relite m

Is it possible to nlock IP and ralalculate turn strategy for OOP without recalculating strategies OTR for both players ?
in pio it's called "mes" (max exploit strategy)

We don’t store river data; instead, it is recalculated live whenever needed.
The main advantage of this approach is that savefiles are much smaller and RAM requirements are significantly lower.
The only practical drawback is that Max Exploit analysis cannot be performed.
However, in regular use this shouldn’t be an issue, since a properly converged GTO tree will already be in a state where the GTO strategy is identical to the Max Exploit strategy.


by carlos243 m

What is the difference between gto2 file and the previous GTO.document?The GTO2 files take forever to work and most of the time they do not even open.

.gto2 format offers compression, as well as the ability to detect corrupted sections of a savefile, and read around it.
So even if a savefile has been corrupted, it should still open.
In my experience, the .gto2 files are much smaller, and load much faster.
Should you have a file that loads slowly for you, then please send it to our support, so that we can check if we can reproduce the issue on our end.
If you have a .gto file, that, when converted to .gto2 performs poorly, then please send that file, so that we can compare the two.


Hi scylla,
First of all thanks for the great update! I want to express my appreciation to you for being attentive to the users requests even though you think some of them are problematic.

I just want to clarify about the node comparison feature that I meant that it will offer the ability to compare counter strategies for the unlocked nodes that influenced by the nodelocking, for example if I'm nodelocking certain node for OOP\IP in most of the times even a modest change in hero's strategy will change villain's strategy drasticlly to a level that makes it hard to remember what was the GTO strategy compare to the counter strategy, and following the changes will be ideal. in GTOW for example they use dropdown list component that stores all the changes of certain node (locked or unlocked) and offers you the ability to compare them. you can read and watch an example for this feature in this link under the section "Compare Nodes":

Also, when nodelocking specific hand i'm forced to lock the whole range which can influence on constructing counter strategies, is it possible to add the ability to lock individual hands while leaving the rest of the range unlocked?

Thanks!


I have been getting "your license key is corrupted" error in GTO+ lately, but it works normally and registration info shows that my copy is registered. There havent been any hardware changes whatsoever since i registered it. I dont really see anything that would prevent GTO+ from reading the file or anything like that. Should i be worried?


by DeuceOTR m

Hi scylla,First of all thanks for the great update! I want to express my appreciation to you for being attentive to the users requests even though you think some of them are problematic.I just want to clarify about the node comparison feature that I meant that it will offer the ability to compare counter strategies for the unlocked nodes that influenced by the nodelocking, for

Ok, I'll take a look at the video tomorrow morning and get back on this subject.


by bigfishinsmallpond m

I have been getting "your license key is corrupted" error in GTO+ lately, but it works normally and registration info shows that my copy is registered. There havent been any hardware changes whatsoever since i registered it. I dont really see anything that would prevent GTO+ from reading the file or anything like that. Should i be worried?

As long as GTO+ starts in "Registered" mode (meaning you can set any board — not just Td9d6h), it shouldn’t cause any practical issues.
That said, your situation will most likely be resolved by requesting a new key, which you can do here: https://www.gtoplus.com/request-a-key/


Thanks scylla


Scy, is it possible to add a way to "hide" the information in the matrix, betting/calling/raising/folding frequencys so that we can study by making "predictions" without jumping directly to the solution?


by Mates. m

Scy, is it possible to add a way to "hide" the information in the matrix, betting/calling/raising/folding frequencys so that we can study by making "predictions" without jumping directly to the solution?

We don't currently have such a feature.
Can you provide a screenshot of which information you're looking to hide?


by scylla m

We don't currently have such a feature.
Can you provide a screenshot of which information you're looking to hide?

Okay, on second thought, it's not that relevant.
However, I do think it is relevant in the root node (if we're studying OOP cbets, for example). You have direct access to the information, and after making this decision, you can work/study using predictions.

In the GTO trainer, you can see the frequencies at the top (in the browser) as you play the hand. I would hide that, or at least use the option to hide it.

I've been waiting quite a while for some improvements to the trainer regarding the "review"/error filters, notes, etc.

Will this happen at some point?


Hello,
Funny enough, I was gonna ask the opposite.
In GTO trainer, the main frequencies are sometimes hidden when there are too many actions. It's not a big deal, but it's a bit annoying to have to go back to the root node to see the frequencies, then return to the trainer.
Change the place of trainer actions or make the trainer actions transparent when mouse is over would be great.
But at other times, an option to hide root frequencies would also be nice.



by Mates. m

Okay, on second thought, it's not that relevant.However, I do think it is relevant in the root node (if we're studying OOP cbets, for example). You have direct access to the information, and after making this decision, you can work/study using predictions.In the GTO trainer, you can see the frequencies at the top (in the browser) as you play the hand. I would hide that, or at l

by Poupipou m

Hello, Funny enough, I was gonna ask the opposite.In GTO trainer, the main frequencies are sometimes hidden when there are too many actions. It's not a big deal, but it's a bit annoying to have to go back to the root node to see the frequencies, then return to the trainer.Change the place of trainer actions or make the trainer actions transparent when mouse is over would be gre

We do expect to release a new trainer, and the ability to enable or disable viewing the strategy for a hand should be included. Over the past period, we’ve been collecting feature requests related to the trainer, and we’ll be reviewing our overall approach in the near future. If you’d like to reiterate any specific features you’re hoping forβ€”just in case we missed somethingβ€”feel free to post them here, and we’ll make sure they’re noted.


I just want to add that there seem to be some technical issues with the 2+2 forum at the moment.
I'm trying to edit my message to include Poupipou's post, but keep running into connect timeouts.
So, please consider the response above a reply to both posts.


by Poupipou m

Hello,Funny enough, I was gonna ask the opposite.In GTO trainer, the main frequencies are sometimes hidden when there are too many actions. It's not a big deal, but it's a bit annoying to have to go back to the root node to see the frequencies, then return to the trainer.Change the place of trainer actions or make the trainer actions transparent when mouse is over would be grea

I think one thing is unrelated to the other.

I've been asking Scylla for a while to make it easy to navigate the hand played, given the available options. It should be more like the replayers in PT4, H2N, etc. I'd like a flop/turn/river button panel with the ability to fast-forward or rewind based on actions, unlike the current video replayer where we have to wait for it to "load". I'd also like direct access to where we made the mistake and a way to take notes.

The RNG should also be able to be counted as a "mix frequency error" and calibrated if we use a low value for aggressive action or vice versa.

In your example, being able to see the sizing used for the spot where there are three more strategic options helps precisely to "cheat" when making decisions.

I insist, your problem isn't that you can't see the sizing, but how tedious it becomes to review hands and mistakes.

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