ClubWPTGold - RNG discussion

Free money at 5/10/20 🙂

I wasn’t sold before on this whole RNG thing but these coolers for Xmas confirm it. It’s systematically in favor for the whales! /s

I really want to play and this site sure seems like the best option

Its literally impossible for me to win. I've probably lost 25 of last 30 all ins as a 75+% favorite. Would be nice to actually look.

The problem is these are multi way all ins for 200bb+ stacks. 800bb pots going to the 75/15 getting it in with 11% equity 20+ times in a row just seems questionable

Not sure what to do. The brain says something is off but the heart says to play through the variance. Should be up like 150 buy ins in 30k hands probably

Here is an example that just happened. 93/63 3bet/called a 4bet with JJ72sss. We get in 150bb pre, bunch of dead money, guy flops 2 pair. Hes sitting with 1200bb

I lose that spot 95% of the time the action plays out that way. Its not an exaggeration.

Sounds like a great game

Would u rather have seen QJT9ds there?

I never understand why players hate seeing other players play terribly at their table

Oh come on, no one disputes that you want to play in a game with whales like this, but not if you're failing to win against them. I'm sure some people in Chauncey Billups's games also thought the action was too good to pass up.

On the topic of the RNG, I'm very hesitant to make my official position "the RNG is unfair" but I'm getting increasingly suspicious.

I play mainly 100NL and am up about $3500 on the site in 80k hands so I'm not just some fish mad about losing.

I'm definitely running far below EV in all ins; it's very difficult to track due to the lack of hand history but over the past few weeks I've probably lost ~80% of all ins where I'm "flipping" (45%+) or better. Obviously in itself this means nothing; I've run similarly bad in other games at times but it does sometimes feel like the whale is destined to win this session and no amount of equity will stop them.

I can't find it now but I remember seeing an ad that said something along the lines of "no sharks" which seemed a bit concerning, because how could a site accomplish this...?

I don't have a sample size on other sites to prove I'm a winner (before this year I played almost entirely live, winning at $40/hr in 1/3 and $60/hr at 2/5 over decent volume) but I've started playing on both ACR and CoinPoker and they somehow both feel significantly "easier" despite clearly having much tougher fields. I'll update my results at the end of this month if I still feel like making this point since I should have a more reasonable sample by then.

I'm well aware that this is all "feelings" and there are various factors that could explain it (high rake, only running it once, higher variance due to every pot being multiway, antes), but at some point you have to ask how every table can have three whales and you can go days/weeks struggling to break even. I've played live games that play similarly and they were basically a line straight up.

At this point I guess I'll just ascribe it to variance but I'm planning to play serious volume on both it and ACR/Coin this month; if I'm winning on those but losing here it might help to change my mind.

If you are a good player it’s borderline impossible to lose on this site so far

There is some adjustment to it, and it plays more like LIVE plo, but that’s why winrates are so high

There is no other site other than app games where you can and should have a 20bb/100 winrate or higher than this site right now.

Volume cures variance

I'm currently murdering $.01/$.02 for over 50bb/100. I'm up over $800 across 80,000 hands.

Still, I've been victim to what seems to be a disproportionate amount of insane suckouts in huge spots. When it happens, I look and see how many hands the villain has played. In almost every case it's less than 5,000.

I compare that to my own experience. I never meant to get into this. I was just f-ing around with the $2 they gave me for signing up. I've never deposited, and I never will. My first day on the site I turned that $2 into $17. At the end of the second day I had $175 (though I did play some 5c/10c in addition to 1c/2c) I didn't record detailed results for my first 7K hands, so that money isn't included in my aforementioned win rate. But I made approx $200 playing 1c/2c and 5c/10c, so if I do include that, my win rate is probably over 60

I'm wondering if the RNG favors the noobs. Maybe they're sucking people in by making poker seem easy.

I couldn't win a hand on the site when I had just deposited so it can't be that the rng caters to new players.

I am the best player on the site and I took a psych class once so I feel qualified to lecture you rng truthers

https://www.simplypsychology.org/locus-o...
Which one do you want to be, hero?

https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/negati...
https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/availa...
Your mental game is setting you back

https://www.pokerlistings.com/news/godfr...
You think cumicon is feeling sorry for himself saying it’s rigged? Or back on the grind?

https://www.primedope.com/poker-variance...
Your downswing is nothing special. Or your winrate is not what you think it is

I'm in the UK so I can't look at the T&C.

Are those of you who are starting to think that the deal could be rigged thinking that simply because of your belief that an online poker site should provide a fully random deal created by a proper and effective RNG?

I'm not sure that that has to be the case - unless it's stated in the T&C that the deal is created thus, and that the RNG's output is tested and verified by an independent and recognised expert company specialising in that field.

There's an argument that a deal can be rigged, but that the game can be fair to its contingent of players: maybe everyone receives as many Aces as anyone else; maybe bad players are given more winning draws than the good players; etc.

Of course, perhaps the above is in their T&C. Would someone please post the relevant sections, if so? Thank you.

Thank you very much.

After seeing that, I'd definitely be in the INOV camp.

If I thought I'd been seeing too many bad beats recently, before starting my sessions I'd be chanting the relevant Japa Yoga to calm my mind: "It's nasty ol' variance. It's nasty ol' variance."

I have QQxx 3 spades, there's an open call, I call then another player 3 bets, and there are 2 calls. We are deep.

Flop comes down Q T x.

Board runs out 2 way all in, middle set vs a str8 flush draw.

I would have won, or would I have? Is the order of cards determined upon the deal the deck is fixed, or is it random every card based on the timing of when it starts?

If I had called that could throw off the timing?

Note: are the rabbit cards they are using now based on the actual runout? Or it's just random run that could be different if you had called?

This is very interesting

I’ve been playing and winning since the 2006 PokerStars games coordi mentioned.

Haven’t noticed postflop stuff yet, only 15000 hands in though. I was dealt trips 4 times in a row which has never even come close to happening in my 3 million hands of online Omaha. So far that’s the only conclusive thing I can contribute to this thread. Trips dealt pre at a rate which is so far beyond an outlier it immediately set off my spidey sense.

I’m gonna keep putting in a lot of volume and keep an eye on this thread and report back with my thoughts/findings.

It’s always been the players who unearth the nastiness so consider me the canary in the coal mine

Glad there is a forum thread about this.

I was thinking I'm the only insane one.

I mostly play tournaments and I have seen an insane amount of unreasonable and irrational snap calls. We're talking about people snapping all in post flop jam with a 1 card gut shot and 1 other person behind him. And we're talking about relatively high buy-ins, around $50 - $215 buyins.

I do have some evidence that could prove probability of rigged RNG. There is this one guy who disconnected from a tournament and only had 1 BB left, this guy won 10 times in a row every single time he was BB against solid hands, he would hit either 2 pair, or runner runner flush, or a 1 card straight, etc. And we're talking about him going against people who had A,K : AA, two overs, pocket pairs between JJ and 88.

I think if you were to calculate the odds of this guy winning 10 times in a row as a big blind significantly behind it has to be 1 in million at least.

I started a session on Friday by running my KK into AA and losing a stack.
I ended that session by stacking someone with KK when I had AA

I started a session on Saturday by running my KK into AA and losing a stack.
I ended that session by stacking someone with KK when I had AA

This morning, I've been playing satellite tournaments and have seen other players run their AA into another player's KK twice.

another day of getting it in with 60+% ev multiway and 70+% ev heads up and losing 85% of the run outs

4bet aces get called by kk9x and ak9x and flop comes 997

hit the nut straight against 2pair and he rivers the fh after all in on turn

I'm supposed to occasionally win these spots, right? Sounds like the game is too good to be true, right?

And again... I'm 90% on this turn where we got it all in for 800bb pot

Its literally relentless for 20k hands now

Why are you all in for 300bbs on the turn with bottom set?

I’m not sure people understand where EV comes from or how variance works.

When you guys play bad hands more often, you will flop something more often that gets you into a lot of trouble, that you normally shouldn’t have in the situation you are in.

So if you play shit hands and flop let’s say top 2 with it and decide this is good enough for my stack, you introduce variance into your game that you are now at the mercy of.

Stop playing shit hands and definitely stop playing them badly if you want to reduce variance.

Playing plo well is already at a 200bb STDV

Playing PLO badly puts that at 500 or higher

Brother, I got in bottom set on the turn for an 800bb pot with 90% equity and you are trying to say I did something wrong. You are just flat out wrong

Lets start with me winning that spot 9 out of 10 times like I'm supposed to, instead of losing it 9 out of 10 times.

Maybe you don't even realize I'm not the guy who stacked off 2 pair? I dunno, your post is dumb

There are 0 situations you are suppose to stack off with bottom set on the turn for 800bbs in PLO with no redraws

0%

When you conceptually understand why this is in theory, you will become a much better player who understands how to not only generate a higher win rate, but reduce variance while doing so.

This is an absolute punt in every sense of the word.

You are caught up on the fact you had 90% to win with 1 card to go

You are missing the fact you should have never been in this spot in the first place from a theoretical standpoint.

Take with that what you will.

Number of times I've made quads in two decades of playing live texas hold em - 1

Number of times I've made quads in my last 250 hands on ClubWPTGold - 3

Make that 4 times

What if your opponent turns their hand face up and shows they have nominal equity? Is it still "wrong" to stack off with bottom set?

What if your opponent does not turn their hand up, but you have an infinite sample of hands he's played in exactly this spot - which show you have a commanding equity advantage in this exact spot?

As someone who speaks with such absolute certainty, you should be aware that poker is a situational game, and no strategic "rules" in poker are absolute. Speaking as such just exposes a narrow mindedness and inability to think critically.