GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

What a liar.

If you need to blatantly lie, then you're obviously wrong.

Mozgov was dominant at times in that series, while Tristan played better than Horace Grant ever did in the Finals...

Accordingly, Delly was the 5th or 6th best player, and this is common knowledge, so your lies are just exposing that you're on the wrong side of the debate..

Btw, Lebron easily wins that series if he shoots 45% and plays defense.. The Warriors were 1st timers and had a sidekick that produced less than Hornacek (1-man team)... People simply don't realize that Love/Kyrie were always extra and deck-stacking, so their injuries gave Cleveland a normal roster with 1 franchise player, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE HAD

Lebron was horrible in the 2015 Finals by playing exactly like Iverson with inefficient chucking and zero defense.

He let an 8 ppg bench player double their normal scoring average and win FMVP.

and EVERYONE made Lebron shoot poorly in the 15' Playoffs (every round), so the low efficiency had nothing to do with Iggy and more to do with Lebron's inability to shoot well at Jordan-level burdens, shot volumes and defensive attention...

Lebron's inability to shoot well at high volume is statistical fact... If you disagree, then you're saying a 6'6" guy that weighs 215 (Iggy) can turn Lebron into a massive bricklayer despite single coverage all series... The Warriors were happy to leave Lebron alone to dominate the ball and lay bricks (bad iso player - no bag, no jumper)... Btw, that's another thing MJ is better at (commanding double teams)..

There are portions of Wade's career where he was better than Kobe, and even Lebron for that matter.

Wade was clearly the 2nd best player in 2010, so it's criminal for Lebron to team up with the #2 player... That's like Jokic teaming up with SGA and KAT... This is why Lebron's career has been a fraud since "the decision" to stack the deck.

What's your issue with me? Sorry if i'm making your experience less enjoyable. Not my intention. I repsect you, and everyone's opinion's, and don't get mad at you guys. I just felt more than one person should defend Jordan's career. People denigrating Jordan's name made me decide to get in the discussion. Lebron had a great career. Jordan had the best career and deserves more respect than he's been given in this discussion. All the best to you, and all of you! I genuinely mean that btw. Let's just have some fun debating the goat. No reason to get upset.

Spoken by someone that didn't watch the series.

Jordan never had to play without Pippen in his title runs, yeah Pippen only got scraps after Jordan demanded 50% of the shots, he's miles better than the bailout options the Cabs had in 2015

It's self-fulfilling Jordan demands all the shots, 2nd/3rd don't score a ton as a result... Jordan solo-carried.

Jordan leaves, the other guys step up and team is still quite good.

Luka missed more games this postseason than the full 8 man Bulls rotation did over 6 finals runs.

Obviously that had nothing to do with the Bulls 3peating though.

Pippen had the green light in 94' and averaged the same ppg as he did alongside Jordan:

1994 Pippen...... 22.0 ppg.... 5.6 apg
1992 Pippen...... 21.0 ppg ... 7.0 apg

Pippen and Grant played to capacity alongside Jordan, so all of Jordan points were needed.

For example, the Bulls and Suns both averaged 106.7 ppg in the 93' Finals, so all of Jordan 41 was needed, especially since Pippen shot 47% true shooting (horrific) and therefore couldn't handle additional load.

Ultimately, Pippen's horrible efficiency showed that he couldn't handle additional load, while his 94' season showed that he played to capacity alongside Mike.

Pippen averaged 17.6 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs, so Pippen's presence often equalled not having anything that good

Specifically, Jordan was forced to beat top teams with trash from Pippen, while Lebron never did - Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick, while MJ did all the time.

Again, Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick, while MJ did all the time.

^^^ a perfect display of respect and integrity in a debate, while Lebron fans have gotten angry.

Perhaps it's the impending reality of Lebron's 4th 4-0 sweep (none for MJ), and Lebron also has the record margin of loss in 14: and 17' (despite having the preseason favorite and big 3 super-team, respectively).

Hypothetical

You take 100 random people with no history of basketbalk.

You make them watch 30 hours of gameplay between MJ and Lebron.

And then ask them who's better.

I bet like 95% would say Jordan.

Would Tom Brady still be considered the GOAT if he was 4-6 in Superbowls??

Would Jordan be worse if he was 6-4 in finals?

It depends if merely making the Finals is considered an overachievement.. A Finals loss in 92' would be a black mark, while a Finals loss in 90' wouldn't be.

Aside from 2007, all of Lebron's Finals appearances were 100% expected and manufactured with the best cast in the conference... Specifically, Kyrie played 12 of 14 games in the 15' East Playoffs, while Love was a rare all-star sidekick in the 18' East, so the only time Lebron took a 1-star team to the Finals was back when everyone was doing it (Iverson, Dwight, Kidd twice).

Ultimately, Lebron rigged the East, so he needs to win all those Finals except 15' and 18', but you can't lose by record amount EVER... The only reason to lose by record amount is if the worst cast ever faces the best ever, but that was FAR from the case - Lebron had preseason favorites and big 3 super-teams when he lost by record amount in 14' and 17'.

If Lebron shoots 45% and holds Iggy to his normal average of 8 ppg, the 15' Cavs win the Finals easily.

Unfortunately, Lebron played exactly like Iverson with inefficient chucking and zero defense, so the Cavs lost to the 1st timer Warriors.

A normal roster in the 2010's East would've been JR Smith at 2nd option, and then Mosgov, Tristan, Shumpert, Korver and company..

So Love and Kyrie were 2 extra superstars that no one else had - everyone had "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player, while Lebron had "super-teams" of 3 franchise players and therefore the preseason favorite for 6 straight years (11' to 16').. KD actually made a big mistake by waiting 6 years to respond.

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Recent Thread Cliffs

It was always fraud that Lebron's teams start as the preseason favorite, but then barely win 50 games and claim to be "outmatched" by the Spurs or Warriors... Lebron's super-teams were supposed to be dynasties and have a "battle of the titans" like the 80's Lakers/Celtics rivalries, but instead Lebron produced weak teams that couldn't compete with Curry and Duncan.. It's classic underachievement of expectation (battle of titans reduced to one-sided affairs).

Lebron's standard was to barely win 50 games with the preseason favorite, thereby falling to perennial underdog.. He's simply the biggest underachiever of rosters ever...

He's also the biggest loser ever by virtue of a lottery record on the championship level, and the most upset losses and "bad" losses ever (getting gentleman swept or swept despite all-star teammates and preseason favorites).

So basically he sucks then because 9 seasons out of 15 he lost before even making the conference finals.

6-9 damn he sucks.

Russell 11-2.

End thread I guess.

I don't count when a top player enters the league as they will usually end up with the worst, or one of the worst teams in the league. But he turned that team around and once he broke through, beating the bad boys, had two 3 peats. Lebron zero 3 peats.

But if we go by this criteria Lebron has played 23 seasons and only won 4. So 19 seasons he failed. 4-19 worse than 6-9. While playing with the best players in the league.

The point is on the biggest stage, the finals, Jordan was at his best and nobody ever beat him. Didn't even need a 7th game. And won 6 titles and 6 finals mvp's and zero losses when the lights were the brightest. And in a shortened career due to mid-career retirement, plus didn't enter the league until he was 21. And he did it with much less talent than Lebron got to play with.

Jordan made the ECF twice so he's actually 8-7.

And the idea is that if your team is good enough to make the Finals, a goat player should be able to make up whatever difference might exist between the Finals rosters.

For example, the Cavs would've easily won the 07' Finals if Lebron averaged a simple 30 ppg on 45% shooting.. That isn't too much to ask... But instead he was worst-ever (the only player ever to shoot 35% with 6 TO's).

If Jordan's 95 bulls had lost in the finals to the Rockets, he'd be 6-1 in finals. Clearly that would've been better than what he did. And if a he and Rip Hamilton had made a run and lost in the finals with the Wizards, he'd then be 6-2.

That fictional 6-2 version of Jordan would easily surpass the real 6-0 finals Jordan. And a Wizards finals run would have seriously cemented his legacy and perhaps be regarded almost as highly as his 3 peats.

Yes, 4-19 is not as good as 6-9.

6-0 is just silly though because it glorified failure before the finals as being better than reaching the finals and losing.

yes easily, no one else played in 5 besides Elway and Mahomes.

Jordan had to play the great teams of the east in the Celtics and Pistons. And he had to do it with subpar talent around him. Especially compared to Lebron.

Lebron played in the east when the east was very weak for a big chunk of time. His main competition for a number of years was the toronto Raptors with Lowrey and Derozen. They were a decent team, but had no chance playing Lebron's version of dream teams. The Heat with wade and Bosh, and The Cavs with Kyrie and Love left almost zero chance they wouldn't get to the finals. But once they got to the finals and had to play real teams he lost more than he won. Which proves more he had a buy to the finals for a bunch of years. So i don't see getting to a bunch of finals and losing as a positive as it just proved how soft the east was. Had he won significantly more finals then he lost he could have disproved the theory he had a buy to the finals for many years. Well not disprove the theory, as it was a fact, but coulda said it's not my fault the east was weak. I beat the west too so i was that good to make 10 finals and win alot of those finals. But that didn't happen. With the best talent around him as well.

And i don't mean to denigrate Lebron. 10 finals is a very good achievement. But with the talent he had around him, and the east being so soft, it wasn't as great achievement as it would be for another player doing it with a normal roster, and fighting through a tough field of competition to get to the finals. It was more of a forgone conclusion he would be in the finals with those conditions.

If MJ had beaten the Magic in 95, but lost to the Rockets in the Finals. If MJ had of beaten Detroit two of those years, but lost to the Lakers in the Finals.

Obviously it would have meant MJ had a much worse career.