GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

Knicks are currently 11-2 in the playoffs. Both losses by 1 point. If they close out the Cavs in the next game, it will be dominate. By point differential their last 10 games have been the record.

Brunson has an assist rate of 32%.

OKC are currently 10-1 in the playoffs.

SGA has an assist rate of 19.7%.

FGs theory is so bad.

Of course it never really passed the sniff test anyway.

May be an all time bad theory.

I did watch the finals vs the heat though. The heat vs Dirk. Dirk was inceredible and why i think he's the 2nd best shoter in nba history. Dude was money every time he touched the ball. It was crazy. I was an instant Dirk fan. I might even say that it wasn't a Lebron choke as much as it was Dirk taking the stage as the goat even if only for that 1 year. He was crazy good. He beat the dream team heat by himself. Nobody ever did that before.

It was just Dirk's time to goat! He was in the zone and wouldn't be denied. He put on a masterpiece of shooting that might be the best run of any shooter in history.

Based on your logic, Pippen was an even worse defender than Jordan, since the Bulls were significantly better defensively when Pippen was OFF the floor in the 97' and 98' regular season and playoffs.. It's also a meaningful sample because Pippen missed half of 98'.

So now that you're confused by your own numbers, allow an actual basketball player to educate you on the hoops context fueling these numbers.. This will allow you to understand how MJ and Pippen are still all-time defenders despite the team defense slipping slightly when they play, smh.... (bball 101 incoming)...

It's impossible for a team to maintain the same defensive rating if their offense suddenly spikes.

It's kind of like a boxer where increasing their offensive output opens them up to getting hit and thereby FACING better offense from the opponent.. A team that's starting to blow things out offensively and play faster and faster will be more susceptible to getting scored on... Presumably, the vastly superior offense more than offsets the slight drop in defense, thus ballooning net rating, which was the case with MJ's impact on the Bulls - he allowed a 2-way team..

The Bulls were still great defensively with MJ on the floor, but now they also had the goat offense... And btw, Jordan's Bulls had the #1 defense in 98' before Pippen returned, and dropped to 9th thereafter (superior defensive focus prior to Pippen's return, aka Rodman was MJ's sidekick).

Btw, since players don't have infinite energy, it makes sense for a team with no offense to focus on defense... aka the focus is defense when MJ is off the floor... Otoh, when he's on the floor, the offense becomes a juggernaut, so now it's a 2-way focus that balloons net rating - the slight drop in defensive focus is more than offset by the huge spike in offense.

Hope that helps.

Btw, when we do this exercise for Lebron, we see that he doesn't provide a 2-way team like MJ, such as a #1 offense and #1 defense, or even a top 3 offense/defense... Lebron also doesn't spike his team's net rating like MJ because he frequently craters defenses more than MJ ever did, while improving offenses 1/3 as much as MJ did..

Tldr: thanks for finding YET ANOTHER WAY to statistically prove MJ's vast superiority.

You could argue that it's the other way around as when a team scores they take the basketbal out of the hoop, which means there's less fast breaks, which is the most efficient way of scoring.

If MJ is off the floor, wouldn't it mean that the team would have to focus more of it's attention on offense as MJ was "using all his enegy" creating the offense?

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Here's the number of points per 100 possessions that team defenses were worse with Lebron or Jordan on the floor:

REGULAR SEASON

2004 ..... 4.0 points worse (6.1 pts better on offense)
2006 ..... 2.6 points worse (13.0 pts better on offense)
2008 ..... 1.4 points worse (12.3 pts better on offense)
2014 ..... 2.1 points worse (9.0 pts better on offense)
2018 ..... 6.0 points worse (7.9 pts better on offense)
2022 ..... 2.6 points worse (8.2 pts better on offense)
2025 ..... 4.2 points worse (1.1 pts WORSE on offense)

1998 ..... 3.4 points worse (10.1 pts better on offense)

PLAYOFFS

2006 ..... 10.6 points worse (10.5 pts WORSE on offense)
2011 ..... 19.9 points worse (5.2 pts better on offense)
2013 ....... 8.5 points worse (8,7 pts better on offense)
2015 ....... 1.6 points worse (2.5 pts better on offense)
2018 ....... 6.6 points worse (14.1 pts better on offense)
2023 ....... 7.5 points worse (2.4 pts better on offense)
2024 ....... 2.7 points worse (4.3 pts better on offense)
2025 ..... 24.5 points worse (2.5 pts better on offense)

1998 ....... 1.4 points worse (14.5 pts better on offense)

^^^ It's clear that old Jordan impacted team defense better than prime Lebron, while also spiking team offenses 50-300% more.
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A big part of a team offense clicking and running it up is leaking out and anticipating changing ends (getting the ball back).. When a team has momentum, they're leaking out and sloughing off a tad defensively to achieve the maximum offense.

This is standard basketball.

Again, the numbers substantiate what I'm saying, unless you think Pippen and Jordan actually make defenses worse.. Is that what you think, or do you think there's more to it??.. (like the drastic increase in offense takes a tad off the defense, aka natural basketball flow of the game).

Lol so true - no all-defense in his 30's, while making his team's defense worse in the regular seasons of 04', 06', 08', 14', 18', 22' and 25', or nearly 30% of his career...

He also reduced the Heat's defense by 8 points per 100 possessions in the 13' Playoffs (title run), and many other playoff runs.

If a team knows they have a trash offense and can't outscore opponents, they have to win with defense - this is bball 101 - bad offensive teams try to win with defense... They have to stop the opponent from clicking, getting hot and getting those run outs because they themselves can't win that battle.. So their best chance is a conservative "prevent" defensive posture, and trying to limit the opponent to a point level that their trash offense can actually reach..

Otoh, a juggernaut offense won't mind a run-and-gun or otherwise all-out war (where defensive fundamentals give way to momentum) because they have greater firepower.. Btw, even with MJ on the team, the Bulls OFTEN had to play a slower grinding series (a conservative or defensive "prevent" approach) to hang with an opponent's superior offensive firepower.. Otherwise, MJ had to average 41, or thereabouts.

Limitted offensive player Wemby with 25 first half points in an effective elimination game tonight against (checks notes) the best defensive team in the league.

Man, imagine what he would do if he wasn't so limitted.

LeBron missed the All NBA team after making 21 straight teams.

Two players that made this years team weren't born when LeBron last missed.

Lebron's career is a comedy of errors and perennial losing, but the media simply lies and pretends it's not.. They're actually saying now that Lebron is a $50 million player and any team should be thrilled to have him - they're saying he could help the Cavs win a title...

All of this is the opposite of the truth and sheer lies.. In 2025, the "all-nba" Lebron made the Lakers 4 points worse on defense and 1 point worse on offense in the regular season (massive sample), so he didn't deserve All-NBA and it was a farce.. Every All-NBA player was massively positive, except Lebron was massively negative...

The playoffs were even worse because the Lakers were 25 points worse defensively when Lebron was on the floor, so this trash would crater any team.. If you gave Lebron major minutes on the Spurs or OKC, it would literally destroy those teams... And the reality is that the Cavs did pretty good this year and literally have no minutes for Lebron unless they want to destroy their core... This is obvious stuff, so don't be fooled by ESPN's attempts to get Lebron another big contract, because that's all it is - they're literally trying to DEFRAUD some poor team that will be saddled with Lebron next year.. lol, smh

Btw, unlike Jordan, I don't know of any business of Lebron's that brings in 30 million after tax like Lebron's NBA salary - I personally think he needs his NBA salary to keep the wheels greased of his empire.. I'm not saying he's broke, but he's far from being like "I don't care about 50 mill"

Just look at the 2nd Round vs Minnesota.. Wemby won that series against a tough team with just 20 ppg.

Essentially, if there was ever a series that MJ could win by averaging 20 ppg, he would just average 30 and sweep... This isn't bs because it's literally what happened... In the 92' 1st Round, the Bulls had to make a statement and sweep the 8 seeded Heat, because dropping a game would look bad and signal weakness... Accordingly, Jordan averaged 45 to ensure the sweep.

Wemby doesn't have it like this, but don't feel bad about it because NO ONE DOES

Imagine being proud of a guy averaging a lot when it's an 1st vs 8th seed.

MJ sits out that series and the Bulls probably still win.

Meanwhile Wemby has tied up a series at 2-2 as a 22 year old against the defending champion who won 64 games.

But you just can't say Wemby is awesome at basketball.

If Wemby was really on Jordan's level, he would've averaged 30 against the T'Wolves and swept like MJ would have.

Btw, you're knocking MJ for averaging 40 in the 1st Round, but we know for a statistical fact that the Bulls needed MJ to average 41 in the 93' Finals - this confirms a horrific cast, since any cast that requires 41 from the 1st option is bad by definition.

And Wemby tying a conference finals at 2-2 when Jordan would 3-peat isn't comparable.... Compared to MJ, Wemby is carried by teammates and has far more help than MJ ever had.. This is a statistical fact and obvious reality.. It doesn't mean he's "not awesome" at basketball or whatever framing you fabricated - it just means that he isn't on Jordan's level, which is obviously true and common knowledge.

Again, being 2-2 when Jordan would be 3-peating simply isn't comparable.. Jordan 3-peated with far less help, and against better players and teams.... Wemby just has to beat a bunch of dumb ball-dominators, while MJ faced long-standing organic juggernauts with highly-developed chemistry and ball movement.

Btw, don't bother mention Lebron anymore because you've ditched him and moved on to Wemby - a stunning, judas-like betrayal... This shows that you never cared about Lebron, and simply wanted someone - ANYONE - to dethrone MJ, whom you obviously hate... Lebron was simply used for this purpose, and now that he failed, you're on to someone new, smh.. This is the integrity of a so-called Lebron "fan" (actually just an MJ-hater).

You've tied your identity to Scoring is the only thing that matters, since it is Jordan's main skill, and pretend that everything else is irrelevant.

Wemby's well on his way to being the GOAT defender, the only thing that will stop that is injuries.

rookie Jordan wouldn't be sweeping OKC, my god it's exhausting watching you compare prime years vs pre-peak, or end of career years, so Jordan is always 27 but everyone else is only judged against that season regardless, yeah 40yr old Lebron isn't that good, he is miles better than 40yr old Jordan. 22 yr old Wemby is well clear of 22 yr old Jordan, he may not reach the same absolute height

The below is a perfect example of the 90s. The NBA, media and... well... every body had to make Michael Jordan look good. It was good for business. So it was set up for him to win.

Players that can carry the "star" category of scoring need less stars, thus allowing GM's to find the right others/defenders, aka elite roster construction.

The ability of Curry, MJ and Duncan to carry the scoring load throughout title runs is why those rosters never needed "more help", while Lebron's rosters always need more help because he can't carry the load.. Lebron's need for great scoring help prevents GM's from getting sufficient defenders, while Jordan built great defensive rosters because he carried the offense (ditto Duncan and Curry).

Ultimately, carrying the scoring load requires less offensive help and allows the construction of great defensive rosters..

Rookie MJ would three-peat with this Spurs' cast because it's far more help than he ever had.

^^^ Looney tunes

Wemby was lottery for 2 years until a ready-made all-star arrived (Fox), and another one developed (Castle).

So he's done nothing with his casts that MJ didn't do with similar casts, and of course MJ won 6 titles with weaker casts than the current Spurs.

Wemby was lottery for 2 years until a ready-made all-star arrived (Fox), and another one developed (Castle).

So he's done nothing with his casts that MJ didn't do with similar casts, and of course MJ won 6 titles with weaker casts than the current Spurs.

Yeah, this Spurs team would definitely win 57 games without Wemby.

They certainly would if they had 3-peated first and then enjoyed a honeymoon of lowest-ever expectations and sleeping opponents - they were the biggest "letdown" game of all-time and opponents circled the Bulls on the calendar as the club night out - this was the standard according to Penny Hardaway ("we stayed out all night without black jesus to worry about")

It's interesting because no one raised much of an eyebrow when the Bulls were winning 55 because everyone knew the bubble would burst.. But the bubble wouldn't necessarily burst for the Spurs because Fox and Castle are closer to franchise players than Pippen.

Fox basically beat Curry in 2022 before going down with injury and was considered a dominant player that might replace Curry as the pre imminent guard... Meanwhile, Castle has taken over in these playoffs and reached levels that Pippen never did.

Many others also don't have Lebron in the top 5, so this goat debate is a myth invented by a dozen or so members of the mainstream media (Klutch goons)

Karl Malone doesn't have MJ in his all time starting 5 - https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-sc...

Malone puts Pippen in his top 5.

Malone played against these guys for 15 ish years and met them in the finals twice. And Fallguy doesn't even watch basketball for the last 20 years. Malone wins.