Daniel Negreanu's very own containment thread. All things Danny go here

I don't agree with what he is doing, mostly playing super high buyins, which he maybe can't beat, and apparently not playing that much. Obviously, he has the big endorsement contract and assets to do that.

However, a losing player is someone who can't beat 2/5 NL or $500 tournaments or maybe loser. He is clearly very winning at reasonable stakes.

Most players if given the money couldn't get lucky enough to win the Poker Players Championship, 9 games, slow structure, stacked field. He has won multiple super high rollers and is now down to 4th in most PGTs won. You need a high degree of skill to accomplish that.

Sure, but like, how big of a mistake? Especially if you know the BB isnt someone who raises limpers often in that spot. I suppose if hes sitting on like 8bb, then yea def. But 50bb? Who cares.

Also, If you only play at a certain level (nosebleed) and are perpetually having losing years, sponsorship or not- youre a losing player.

Lots of examples I can think of in all kinds of sports.

Deuceblocker:

I get your point about the 2-5 player but id categorize them as simply being a good player. Just because you cant beat 10ks or 10-20nl doesnt mean you're bad.

No, if you are a winner in anything 50K or below mixed (and say 10K nlhe) you are a winner, period. The track record on that is very long. You don’t become a losing player because a 3rd party pays you 4M to play 3M in SHRs you wouldn’t otherwise play. We have to apply common sense especially in this case where losing player is meant to be an insult but he’s getting paid to play in events where even many of the best don’t have all of themselves and/or brick off for a long time.

If you remove the $50K entries, pretty sure he is a consistently winning player. I don't agree with his game selection, but he may have to play those due to his agreement with GG. I am pretty sure pretty much anyone ITT would do worse playing his tournament line up.

Yeah if I remove the games i am losing from my record I am also a huge winning player.

Yes, if you take out all of my losses I am the player with the winningest track record!

He has the 4th most PGT wins. He must have a big profit in the PGTs.

You can say he is a losing player, but most people don't have the sponsorship to play games they probably can't beat. Almost anyone who lose playing super high rollers. Some people who can beat them probably have big losses. They almost all sell shares or are staked and aren't putting down mostly their own money for $250K entry fees.

You can say he is a losing player, which may be technically correct, that he has lost money net due to super high rollers. However, to go from that to imply he is a losing player like he couldn't beat 1/2 NL or something or that he couldn't make a living playing poker without sponsorships is totally false. He is still a very strong tournament player. He probably can't beat the very highest level against GTO players.

Meanwhile, ITT there's plenty of posts saying "well if you take out the PPC where he got lucky and the One Drop where he got lucky, it shows he's a losing player.."

theres another way to look at NEgreanus record if winning or not winning

when people were grinding rakeback challenges if they was down on the game but ahead overall due to getting rakeback plus what wins they did have would they be considered a losing player or a winning player

Negreanu is basically getting huge rake back deal for entering these events with big bonus cash rewards for hitting milestones

to me thats winning / beating the game

Yeah, it is obvious with all the reenteering and playing the high rollers that his agreement with GG is they pay a percentage of buyins and/or he gets bonuses for bracelets, final tables, etc. That is a reasonable explanation of his approach.

I guess he is a losing player who can't beat the games, but got lucky at one point holding the record for most PGT wins, taking 2nd place in a $1M buyin, winning the PPC with its slow structure, etc. I suppose everyone here could do that if they had his sponsorship deal.

Given enough time a chimp could do it. Negreanu is a very good poker player however and would do it in one millionth the time it would take a chimp to accomplish that.

I understand the concept, but that doesnt mean he's beating the game.

If you bowled an average score of 150 and made millions in sponsorship deals to bowl, it doesn't mean you're beating the game, it just means you're getting paid to play.

Nothing wrong with that, and this is just my opinion. I would rather be in his shoes any day than be a misreg grinder. But to me, this isn't beating the game.

he obviously got crazy lucky with the PPC win. I mean yea if you can fire every event a bunch of times for a over decade you're going to win a bracelet at some point. Nobody disputes he at one time was an elite player. Even winning the PPC he got buried that summer and it's not some outlier down year at this point.

I love the logic of the guy loses for ten years and people like you question him being a losing player. He's a losing player bc he can afford to be.

And obviously I agree with RotteBMI - anyone grinding for a living would much prefer getting paid millions from GG. Dnegs has a dream setup.

7th of 12 in $25K PLO/NLH mixed, 33 places pay.

Now 5th of 10 in the $25K PLO/NLHE. Probable to make final table in a tough tournament.

I agree that there are better tournament players now without the sponsorship deal.

Comparing him to a 150 bowler is ridiculous. The PPC is slow structure and a stacked field. It isn't possible to luck your way to a win in it. I agree he got very lucky, as often when people win tournaments. Hit a straight flush or something. People are posting ridiculous crap, claiming he is a losing player, etc.

I guess this is what happens when you try to value bet without the nuts in PLO:
https://www.pokernews.com/tours/wsop/202...

Daniel has had a Horseshoe up his arse today for the
WSOP $25,000 High Roller PLO/NLH Mixed event.
He should not complain about bad luck for the rest of the series.

So what lol?
The guy puts out the best WSOP content bar none ( including the WSOP themselves ) for our entertainment , why not just enjoy it for what it is ?

You really , really need to get a life , of course he will complain again any poker player does.

I find his vlogs as insufferable as these posters implying he is a fish, but they must entertain some people, or GG wouldn't pay so much for them.

of course it's possible if you're decent at the games. You have to run super good to win the event no matter who you are. Are you pretending there isn't a **** ton of variance in these things?

lol what skill!

No, my point is that you have to be a really strong player to win a PPC with 9 games, a stacked field, and a slow structure. It is a 5 day tournament with about 100 entrees. One player has won it 3 times and 2 others have won it twice each. The final 3 this year is Glaser, Arieh, and Ivey.

and? Dengs got super lucky once. What is your point? he literally hit a one outer to stay alive at one point and undoubtably had a horseshoe up his ass the entire event.

He got lucky, but if he was really a total fish who couldn't beat the games at all, there is no way he would get that far in such a tough tournament.