Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
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If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
33407 Replies
This much IS true. But then the thread must recognize that railing against Israel IS railing against Jews.
Just simply isn't true not matter how many words you type with all-caps. A substantial majority of Jews live outside of Israel, not that it even matters here.
We would never say this about any other nation. You can criticize what the state of Poland is doing without being critical of Polish people. You can all out the Chinese government and people understand that's not a broad attack on the people of China, much less all people of Chinese descent. It's just more toxic ethnonationalism.
It took 2 seconds to find this:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/prominent-...
The mod admonished you for your comment and micro interpreted it the same way I did so unless you’re misunderstanding which comment I’m referring to you’re the one that’s mistaken.
I understand you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too.
Your times of Israel article does not represent what we've been talking about in here. All I can talk about in here, is what we've been talking about in here.
Your understanding of the Trolly comment is one thing. But if I put a little smiley face beside it, and if you were Jewish, most often, you'd get it. Micro defended me relative to someone else's comments later. I would love to spell it out for you, but I would be quickly moderated (and Trolly would get mad). Try to think what else I might have meant.
As for the cake comment, I am not. I'm showing how dishonest some in this thread are as it relates to this just being about Zionism. And Dunyain just explained why, in a way he seems soley qualified to do itt. He has a way with words.
We would have to have a long debate of the definition of "radical" and "deradicalize" in order to determine the success of these programs. Here's the more important point: isn't the situation vastly different in Gaza, where, unlike Saudi Arabia, pretty much everyone has loved ones who have been killed/maimed at the hands of the IDF?
Also, could you please address my point about how Israel will deal with the problem of the American voter base shifting over the next generation?
According to this poll (taken in April, when post-Oct 7 sympathy was much higher), 30% of Republicans (yes, Republicans) under the age of 30 who have a leaning on the issue are pro-Palestine vs. 4% of Republicans age 65+. The pro-Palestinian numbers are 87% for < 30 Democrats with leanings vs. 40% of 65+ Democrats.
This is what is so concerning for Israel in the long-term: not only are they getting blown out in the polls of the voters who have some degree of concern, but given their current trajectory, they're not exactly in a position to win the hearts and minds of the 25% on each side of the young vote who have no opinion on the issue.
So again, how does Israel deal with this problem?
Just simply isn't true not matter how many words you type with all-caps. A substantial majority of Jews live outside of Israel, not that it even matters here.
We would never say this about any other nation. You can criticize what the state of Poland is doing without being critical of Polish people. You can all out the Chinese government and people understand that's not a broad attack on the people of China, much less all people of Chinese descent. It's just more toxic ethnonationalism.
Trolly if you look at the blow back effect on the global Jewish population, you will see that in fact, it IS one thing. It has to be.
Go read Dan Bilzarian's twitter. It's Goebbels mode, but literally. This is the only possible outcome once this wave starts to curl.
Your times of Israel article does not represent what we've been talking about in here. All I can talk about in here, is what we've been talking about in here.
Your understanding of the Trolly comment is one thing. But if I put a little smiley face beside it, and if you were Jewish, most often, you'd get it. Micro defended me relative to someone else's comments later. I would love to spell it out for you, but I would be quickly moderated (and Trolly would get mad). Try to think what else I might
That article represents the effort of Israel and its supporters to attempt to make Israel central to the existence of all Jews. Which is exactly the point I was making. I know some people in this thread like to believe that cause and effect only works in a way that favors them but in reality actions have consequences, even if they’re not deserved. Dun is a known bigot and the absolute most dishonest poster on this forum so I really don’t care how eloquently he can spin his bs.
That article represents the effort of Israel and its supporters to attempt to make Israel central to the existence of all Jews. Which is exactly the point I was making. I know some people in this thread like to believe that cause and effect only works in a way that favors them but in reality actions have consequences, even if they’re not deserved. Dun is a known bigot and the absolute most dishonest poster on this forum so I really don’t care how eloquently he can spin his bs.
I mean I would have gotten slapped with infractions, and probably a timeout, over your last 2 posts about me. But I admit I have no clue how consistent this new moderation is, so we will see I guess.
Regardless, blame the evil Zionists that were all born in the 1800s if you like, but in respect to the bold this has already happened. Like the original Zionists intended, Israel for the last 50 years at least has been viewed as central to the existence of all the Jews. And pretending otherwise by being willingly oblivious to what the majority of the world already thinks is very dangerous IMO.
Trolly if you look at the blow back effect on the global Jewish population, you will see that in fact, it IS one thing. It has to be.
Go read Dan Bilzarian's twitter. It's Goebbels mode, but literally. This is the only possible outcome once this wave starts to curl.
Just because dangerous racist idiots think Israel = Jews doesn't mean it's true. In fact, most people would conclude the opposite.
That article represents the effort of Israel and its supporters to attempt to make Israel central to the existence of all Jews. Which is exactly the point I was making. I know some people in this thread like to believe that cause and effect only works in a way that favors them but in reality actions have consequences, even if they’re not deserved. Dun is a known bigot and the absolute most dishonest poster on this forum so I really don’t care how eloquently he can spin his bs.
I can simply ASSURE you, that Israel doesn't make us feel safer in the Diaspora (as your post said). There is:
-fearful
-confused
-emboldened
-united
-angry
-proud
-committed
-hopeful
And all kinds of emotions like that. But Jews in the Diaspora, do not feel safer, and certainly not for the past year. You make the claim, I'm telling you that nobody in my community feels safer. And in fact, Jews like Micro feel resentful if anything. Which could have also made the list.
The only way that Israel really makes us feel safer, is the notion that one day, if we had to, we COULD go there. But that's not really safety in the body in the present moment.
Just because dangerous racist idiots think Israel = Jews doesn't mean it's true. In fact, most people would conclude the opposite.
Nobody gets to decide this for us Trolly. Not even you.
Granted you might be Jewish 😀
Israel is the JEWISH HOMELAND. The mothership. Think of it that way, and you'll get it.
I had a reply locked and loaded. But I recently started getting infractions every time I replied to posts like these, so I guess I will take the high road, although I admit it isn't my natural inclination to do so.
The high road? You start nearly every reply with an ad hominem attack. You argue against claims posters haven’t made, all the time. You ignore anything you can’t twist and you don’t engage any good faith efforts to actually have a conversation. Rinse and repeat. You are easily the worst poster here, irrespective of your opinions.
I can simply ASSURE you, that Israel doesn't make us feel safer in the Diaspora (as your post said). There is:
-fearful
-confused
-emboldened
-united
-angry
-proud
-committed
-hopeful
And all kinds of emotions like that. But Jews in the Diaspora, do not feel safer, and certainly not for the past year. You make the claim, I'm telling you that nobody in my community feels safer. And in fact, Jews like Micro feel resentful if anything. Which could have also made the list.
The only way that Israel really mak
I didn’t make the claim that Israel actually makes Jews safer or that you personally feel safer because of Israel. The claim I made is the one that’s being made in the link I shared.
Just popped in to lol genocide vic and jalfrezi. ��
Just simply isn't true not matter how many words you type with all-caps. A substantial majority of Jews live outside of Israel, not that it even matters here.
We would never say this about any other nation. You can criticize what the state of Poland is doing without being critical of Polish people. You can all out the Chinese government and people understand that's not a broad attack on the people of China, much less all people of Chinese descent. It's just more toxic ethnonationalism.
What do you mean by "substantial"? 54% of Jews live outside of Israel.
guy begs for help and what do they do with the info?
bomb the house he gave coordinates for and bury or burn alive many of the people inside.
https://x.com/MosabAbuToha/status/184715...
https://x.com/MosabAbuToha/status/184716...
lol Victor indeed
I understand the point that, if the country I'm in starts rounding up and killing Jews, and I escape, and country after country won't let me in, Israel will. That was super important in 1948 and it's still not nothing. But, as a Jewish person in the USA in 2024, I think, on the whole, Israel probably makes me less safe.
I'm not particularly worried about that. I'm very safe. But if you really could run the numbers, I think they would turn out that way.
the tweeter is a writer for New Yorker that escaped the torture camps. he went to school in the USA and has a US son.
