Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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33422 Replies
So it should come as a surprise to no one that Hezbollah gave reporters a "tour" of the hospital to prove there was no bunker, but placed armed guards to block the doors that Israeli intelligence specifically indicated as being the entrances to the bunker.
They are in the middle of a war. I think we can all grasp that wars create temporary abnormal conditions. The US didn't permanently cease becoming a liberal democracy because WWII happened and the executive took on war powers.
Yes, in the middle of this war Israel is being extremely restrictive of Palestinian movement; much more than their baseline self imposed restrictions.
That being said, for the last 80 years the UN and the Palestinian people themselves could have worked to change the re
I don't see how the UN had anything to do with it. Israel controlled the port and sea and wouldn't just let anyone leave. It's entirely up to any other country if they want to accept immigrants or asylum seekers. Lots of Palestinians have left over the years of course, but that doesn't mean it's easy. Nowhere near as easy as it was for the over 6 million people who left Ukraine during the war there.
I don't see how the UN had anything to do with it. Israel controlled the port and sea and wouldn't just let anyone leave. It's entirely up to any other country if they want to accept immigrants or asylum seekers. Lots of Palestinians have left over the years of course, but that doesn't mean it's easy. Nowhere near as easy as it was for the over 6 million people who left Ukraine during the war there.
You really dont understand how UNRWA operates differently than UNHCR (by design and consent of Palestinian leadership), and how this has contributed to self imposed restrictions on emigration and naturalization?
So it should come as a surprise to no one that Hezbollah gave reporters a "tour" of the hospital to prove there was no bunker, but placed armed guards to block the doors that Israeli intelligence specifically indicated as being the entrances to the bunker.
Do you have a video that shows this?
No. Do you have a video of persons following the exact route Israel says leads to the bunker, to prove it doesn't lead to the bunker?
If Israel says you go left-left-left to get to the bunker, then it is pretty bad faith to go right-right-right and declare they are lying. Wouldn't you agree?
Like I said, the cognitive dissonance to believe Israel is lying about this, when it is clear how right they have been about everything going on in Lebanon (as evidenced by most of Hezbollah commander being killed) is pretty wild.
Do you think Hezbollah doesn't have secret bunkers in Beirut? Or do you think they do and Israel doesn't know where they are, or do know where they are and are lying?
Is this something you have actually thought about beyond "Israel bad guys" lizard brain mentality? What part of this story exactly is unbelievable to you?
No. Do you have a video of persons following the exact route Israel says leads to the bunker, to prove it doesn't lead to the bunker?
If Israel says you go left left left to get to the bunker, then it is pretty bad faith to go right-right-right and declare they are lying. Wouldn't you agree?
Unintentionally funny bc left left left and right right right lead to the same spot
That is if we're speaking in 90* turns
Let’s just let terrorists use civilian infrastructure as their based of operations with impunity. That seems like a totally good thing to be incentivizing. Why not just establish a base of operations inside a school, or a retirement home, or a hospital, or a residential neighborhood, that way Westerners will just infinitely cry out war crime even if what is being targeted is clearly a military installation.
According to this the terrorists are everywhere type hysteria, genocide is justified and maybe even desirable.
According to this the terrorists are everywhere type hysteria, genocide is justified and maybe even desirable.
Except you actually aren't addressing the claim itself, you are just making a moral judgment to invalidate the claim without addressing it.
Like if you say there was no rapes on 10/7, and I responded saying it is attitudes like this that justify rape and rape denialism; I am not actually addressing whether or not there were rapes on 10/7, am I?
It addresses the question of whether the claim is true, and suggests a reason why such claims might be made up or exaggerated.
I’ll allow it.
No. Do you have a video of persons following the exact route Israel says leads to the bunker, to prove it doesn't lead to the bunker?
If Israel says you go left-left-left to get to the bunker, then it is pretty bad faith to go right-right-right and declare they are lying. Wouldn't you agree?
Like I said, the cognitive dissonance to believe Israel is lying about this, when it is clear how right they have been about everything going on in Lebanon (as evidenced by most of Hezbollah commander being
I saw videos from a variety of outlets touring the hospital and not finding a bunker. Here are a couple:
It seems an impossible standard that they have to follow Israel's instructions in order to prove the absence of a bunker.
I saw videos from a variety of outlets touring the hospital and not finding a bunker. Here are a couple:
It seems an impossible standard that they have to follow Israel's instructions in order to prove the absence of a bunker.
Israel intelligence made it very clear. The entrance to the bunker is not through the hospital. It is through another building that has an entrance that goes into the bunker under the hospital. Israel gave the exact coordinates and directions to the bunker. The tour did not go anywhere near the coordinates. The tour in question was complete Kabuki theatre.
Of course BBC and Sky News would never have been given permission to follow the clearly proscribed route to the bunker, so cant blame them for that. But they are complete bad faith actors not acknowledging this in their reporting.
I think this quote sums it up the whole charade well:
“We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying."
Israel intelligence made it very clear. The entrance to the bunker is not through the hospital. It is through another building that has an entrance that goes into the bunker under the hospital. Israel gave the exact coordinates and directions to the bunker. The tour did not go anywhere near the coordinates. The tour in question was complete Kabuki theatre.
Of course BBC and Sky News would never have been given permission to follow the clearly proscribed route to the bunker, so cant blame the
Not familiar. Is it about hasbara?
For the Brits in this forum,
Does it embarrass you at all that this is what the BBC has devolved into. Israeli intelligence gives an exact route to a bunker, the BBC goes nowhere near the route, and "reports" they found no bunker and doesn't even acknowledge they went nowhere near the route proscribed.
Just complete journalistic malfeasance.
To the people in this forum that may not agree with Israeli policy, but do agree that reporting should have integrity, does it bother you at all that this is what Israel is up against when it comes to the western press. Just complete bad faith propaganda.
Who is helped by bad faith "reporting" on behalf of Hezbollah? It certainly isn't the Palestinian people, Lebanese people, or Israeli people. What exactly is the BBC agenda in its "reporting" of this conflict. It certainly isn't telling the truth or serving anyone but narrow IRI/proxy interests.
According to this the terrorists are everywhere type hysteria, genocide is justified and maybe even desirable.
Not at all. If they have good intelligence that reliably shows where the terrorists are, and they attack those places, and they minimize civilian casualties as much as possible, it’s not a genocide definitionally. Genocide requires a type of intent.
It’s just simply not allowed by international law for a military force to use the types of tactics Hamas uses and get away with it. Sinwar was killed near the tunnels where the IDF discovered executed the hostages two weeks prior, he was discovered with a passport of a UNRWA affiliated teacher, and he was with a crowd of 26 terror operatives. If their intent was simply to genocide, why would they be going after the leadership and facilitating humanitarian aid to prevent starvation?
I know this. 80 years of UNRWA, and more billions than that spent, and Palestinian Gazans are being pulled by donkeys around a destroyed city while Israeli hostages are dying in tunnels underneath their feet. Who exactly is being served by this?
For the Brits in this forum,
Does it embarrass you at all that this is what the BBC has devolved into. Israeli intelligence gives an exact route to a bunker, the BBC goes nowhere near the route, and "reports" they found no bunker and doesn't even acknowledge they went nowhere near the route proscribed.
Just complete journalistic malfeasance.
To the people in this forum that may not agree with Israeli policy, but do agree that reporting should have integrity, does it bother you at all that this is
No idea on the specifics but I'm embaressed by a lot of stuff from the UK. I'm pleased the BBC doesn't work for israeli intelligence.
Do you think israel is commited to good journalism? Thye can't just pick the bits they want - Show some comitment to journalism and I'll be listening more to their view on specifics.
If their intent was simply to genocide, why would they be going after the leadership and facilitating humanitarian aid to prevent starvation?
Of course they want to kill the Hamas leadership whether they have genocidal intentions or not. But IDF snipers shooting kids in the head, sometimes not just once but twice to make sure, is a well known tactic used during genocides to break the morale of the genocided population by eliminating its loved ones and its future.
For the Brits in this forum,
Does it embarrass you at all that this is what the BBC has devolved into. Israeli intelligence gives an exact route to a bunker, the BBC goes nowhere near the route, and "reports" they found no bunker and doesn't even acknowledge they went nowhere near the route proscribed.
Just complete journalistic malfeasance.
To the people in this forum that may not agree with Israeli policy, but do agree that reporting should have integrity, does it bother you at all that this is
So far the BBC has been running a strongly pro Zionism agenda in its coverage, as has Sky - witness how child Palestinian murders are justified by describing the victims as 5 year old ladies - so I dont think you have much to complain about.
The BBc is rife with client journalism now. If the pennys finally dropping on them that they’ve been duped by Israeli hasbara, well it’s about time.
For the Brits in this forum,
Does it embarrass you at all that this is what the BBC has devolved into. Israeli intelligence gives an exact route to a bunker, the BBC goes nowhere near the route, and "reports" they found no bunker and doesn't even acknowledge they went nowhere near the route proscribed.
Just complete journalistic malfeasance.
To the people in this forum that may not agree with Israeli policy, but do agree that reporting should have integrity, does it bother you at all that this is
Latest example from Sky News is an interview with Reshit, a young Israeli who is the daughter of an Israeli soldier deployed to Gaza and now Lebanon.
Sky News describes her thus: "She is friendly, open, eloquent and utterly sure of herself."
Reshit says "We should kill them, every last one of them."
I saw videos from a variety of outlets touring the hospital and not finding a bunker. Here are a couple:
It seems an impossible standard that they have to follow Israel's instructions in order to prove the absence of a bunker.
For ease of watching here's the BBC investigation you linked to, that Dunyain claims was denied access, which he claims shows bias in favour of Hamas (lol):
