Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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33502 Replies
Well, the ruling elites of the Arab nationalist movements of the early 20th century were mostly secular. But their mandate to rule was contingent on a promise to the Arab people to remove Western influence and create strong Arab nation states. And when they not only failed in this endeavor, but lost Aqsa in the process; the Arab people largely turned away from them and their ideology and embraced fundamentalist Islam instead.
Assad's Baathist Syria was the last vestige of 20th century Arab nationalist movement to fall. And the response by the Arab world was pretty much complete indifference. And to add another layer of irony, for the last couple decades Baathist Syria itself was very much a colonial project propped up by Iran and Russia; and if it wasn't for this colonial interference it would have folded decades ago.
So I think one can acknowledge that at one point in time the leadership of the Palestinian nationalist movement was motivated by secular ideologies; but it is also true that time is long past and does not describe the ideology or motivations of any relevant players today.
Syria itself was very much a colonial project
cmon man
LOL Victor. Here is what Wikipedia says about "Syria." it is pretty much the textbook definition of an ill-conceived colonial project that has never worked from its inception.
The modern Syrian state was established in the mid-20th century after centuries of Ottoman rule, as a French Mandate. The state represented the largest Arab state to emerge from the formerly Ottoman-ruled Syrian provinces. It gained de jure independence as a parliamentary republic in 1945 when the First Syrian Republic became a founding member of the United Nations, an act which legally ended the French Mandate. French troops withdrew in April 1946, granting the nation de facto independence.
The post-independence period was tumultuous, with multiple coup attempts in the country between 1949 and 1971. In 1958, Syria entered a brief union with Egypt, which was terminated in a 1961 coup d'état. The 1963 coup d'état carried out by the military committee of the Ba'ath Party established a de facto one-party state, which ran Syria under martial law from 1963 to 2011, effectively suspending constitutional protections for citizens. Internal power-struggles within Ba'athist factions caused further coups in 1966 and 1970, the latter of which saw Hafez al-Assad come to power. Under Assad, Syria became a hereditary dictatorship, with power consolidated around his family. Assad died in 2000, and he was succeeded by his son, Bashar al-Assad.
Since the Arab Spring in 2011, Syria has been embroiled in a multi-sided civil war with the involvement of several different countries, leading to a refugee crisis in which more than 6 million refugees were displaced from the country.[g] In response to rapid territorial gains made by the Islamic State during the civil war in 2014 and 2015, several countries intervened on behalf of various factions opposing it, leading to its territorial defeat in 2017 in both central and eastern Syria. Thereafter, three political entities – the Syrian Interim Government, Syrian Salvation Government, and the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria – emerged in Syrian territory to challenge Assad's rule. In late 2024 a series of offensives from a coalition of opposition forces led to the capture of Damascus and the fall of Assad's regime
Meanwhile, Israel is
in the Golan.
You don't know much about the PLO, think all Muslims are the same.
Meanwhile, Israel is
in the Golan.You don't know much about the PLO, think all Muslims are the same.
More so because they support sharia law, praise martyrs, etc but maybe they weren’t always such fundamentalists.
Meanwhile, Israel is
in the Golan.e.
Hard to call them settlements. Israel annexed the land in 1981 and Trump recognized it
The new plan is only for the portion of the Golan Heights that Israel has occupied since 1967. In 1981, Israel’s Knesset moved to impose Israeli law over the territory, in an effective annexation.
The plan does not relate to the portion of Syrian land seized by Israel in the wake of al-Assad’s toppling a week ago.
Israel claims what they are doing now is transitory and they are not settling in the land.
LOL Victor. Here is what Wikipedia says about "Syria." it is pretty much the textbook definition of an ill-conceived colonial project that has never worked from its inception.
Victor time and time again has made it clear he has no understanding of the Middle East from 1918-1967. From not criticizing Jordan fir annexing the west bank by admitting he doesn't know enough about it, to, to insisting that Israel is pure colonization and none of the Arab countries are, you are surprised he has no inside knowledge of the politics of the formation of Syria?
Bill
Keep using al Jazeera as your source of you want to keep your point of view
Do you really consider the Golan Heights still contested land? The Druze and other on the "Israeli side" are all Israeli citizens
You posted that it has nothing to do with religion. I then quoted you very explicitly stating that it IS because of religion just a few months ago.
I disagree with almost everything you say, but I don’t always call it out. I will call out intentionally misrepresenting your beliefs in order to win an argument.
So since we have you on record that Jerusalem is not “just land”, that it’s very important to people for religious reasons like praying and holy sites, and that Israel will never give up Jerusalem, it is logical to conclude that the Israeli government is willing to let people die in order to retain the rights to magical land just like the Muslims are. Not much of a high ground if you ask me.
Which is why I’ve said repeatedly they should not let religious wingnuts like Sinwar and Netanyahu near politics. Let rational people divide up the land fairly and not worry about the stupid sky daddies.
I don’t care at all where people think they should have the right to pray to their specific nothings.
Just suspend belief for a moment and imagine that there is no such thing as holy land, that it doesn’t matter at all where you pray, and that god doesn’t care whose land it is.
Ok great, now you’re coming at this from a rational perspective. More than one group feels strongly that they are the rightful owners of the land and can’t agree to share or divide evenly. Make Jerusalem international and call it a day.
Just suspend belief for a moment and imagine that there is no such thing as holy land, that it doesn’t matter at all where you pray, and that god doesn’t care whose land it is.
Ok great, now you’re coming at this from a rational perspective. More than one group feels strongly that they are the rightful owners of the land and can’t agree to share or divide evenly. Make Jerusalem international and call it a day.
Bill
Keep using al Jazeera as your source of you want to keep your point of view
Do you really consider the Golan Heights still contested land? The Druze and other on the "Israeli side" are all Israeli citizens
seriously, why do you posts such objectively false information? all of the Golan Druze are not Israeli citizens. want to bet on the percentage that have accepted?
seriously, why do you posts such objectively false information? all of the Golan Druze are not Israeli citizens. want to bet on the percentage that have accepted?
There are druze all over Israel especially in the north
But in golan
It's probably under 50% but it used to be 0 and has gone up continuously since the syria wars
And I know you are calling it fake news but more druze want to become Israeli now, even those on the Syria side
But even do, they are Israeli permanent residents and can work, travel, etc. Unlike the west bank, Golan has been part of isreal for over 40 years
If you or others still consider it contested territory you do you
every single country in the world considers it Syrian except for 2.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_e...
Big brag to be “the lesser evil” when it comes to Syria
And Syria is a shitshow now, Victor. It’s a fact that the Druze population are better off in Israel. They say so themselves. But it’s hardly a brag to be better than Assad and religious rebel nut jobs.
your White Supremacy is showing again
Im a fan of letting the Druze decide and not random Americans. but hey, I dont consider myself better than anyone.
The Syrian Druze have asked to be annexed by Israel. It’s in the article I just posted, as well as the reasons why.
no the "Syrian Druze" have not asked that. an unnamed and unverified Druze member has asked that.
They’ve been reporting it on NPR as well since Syria fell, how multicultural Syria is and how many communities are now at serious risk under the new regime. This is not an unverifiable issue.
Again, we are talking about a community that lives in a highly unstable environment that is caught in the crossfire of a civil war with no good options. A Taliban-style state is not a safe place for religious minorities.
