Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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33502 Replies
Again, we are talking about a community that lives in a highly unstable environment that is caught in the crossfire of a civil war with no good options. A Taliban-style state is not a safe place for religious minorities.
Victor has spent the last 14 months arguing that Israel is the worst nation that has ever existed, and Israelis are the single worst group of human beings that have ever existed wrt their treatment of religious minorities, with no pushback from you. So given this, I am not sure why you would expect him now to accept any argument premised on a Taliban style state being worse for religious minorities than Israel.
I don't think Victor has said those things.
--I assume this is sarcasm, but wouldn't be shocked if it wasn't either.
In other news the Houthis are firing ballistic missiles at Israel, on top of the regular drone attacks, and taunting Israel over social media, stating this is only the beginning.
I predict in the next couple days the "international community," which has nothing to say over any of this will be suitably appalled and outraged at an Israeli "disproportionate response".
Victor has spent the last 14 months arguing that Israel is the worst nation that has ever existed, and Israelis are the single worst group of human beings that have ever existed wrt their treatment of religious minorities, with no pushback from you. So given this, I am not sure why you would expect him now to accept any argument premised on a Taliban style state being worse for religious minorities than Israel.
More nonsense. I remember victor being asked about this and saying he thinks the Us is a worse country.
It seems you’ve spent the last 14 months not reading anything that challenges your assumptions.
More nonsense. I remember victor being asked about this and saying he thinks the Us is a worse country.
It seems you’ve spent the last 14 months not reading anything that challenges your assumptions.
Regardless, given the last 14 months of rhetoric the idea that he would grant that Israel would have any moral high ground over ISIS/Taliban type governments is pretty ludicrous. (Of course Israel is 1000x better than these govts by any metric, but it is ludicrous that Victor would grant this)
I do remember him having a "conversation" with the Blue guy from the Kibbutz who mentioned he personally knew Lebanese people who left Lebanon and were living in Israel because Hezbollah was terrorizing them, and they would love to go back home when it was safe; and Victors reply basically insinuated the Lebanese people must be traitors who deserve to be terrorized by Hezbollah. I doubt he would view Golan Druze who preferred to be governed by Israel over Islamists any more favorably. But he is free to speak for himself if this isn't the case.
Israel and HTS (formerly ISIS) are allies. they funded and armed these guys and treated them in Israeli hospitals for years. HTS etc are allied with the USA too and just today the Brits sent a delegation to meet with Jolani.
Im not sure why you are acting like they are fighting each other.
Israel and HTS (formerly ISIS) are allies. they funded and armed these guys and treated them in Israeli hospitals for years. HTS etc are allied with the USA too and just today the Brits sent a delegation to meet with Jolani.
Im not sure why you are acting like they are fighting each other.
Israeli Hospitals, specifically Hadassah Hospital, treat everyone at any time
they treat Israelis, palestenians, enemy combatants, prisoners, terrorists
they design every room in in the hospital to be identical with no windows so that the prisoner/terrorist/enemy cannot tell someone where in the hospital he/she is, but they trat everyone
so saying they are allies because they treat them in a hospital is an ignorant argument
im not saying that Israel is not sometimes aligned with isis, i am just saying your reasoning is again mischaracterizing israel, who regardless of your wrong beliefs treats everyone and hospitals try to save everyone's life
visiting Hadassah Hospital was one of the most moving experiences of my life -- learning all of this, plus the world famous Chagal windows are breathtaking
ceasefire deal is basically done but Hamas fears the trump will allow israel to restart fighting after phase 1
Spoiler
DUH
Hamas needs to surrender immediately
So you’re saying Hamas is correct not to trust the ceasefire because the other side is a bad actor? That sounds weird.
Pretty odd take from the side that “just wants peace”
So you’re saying Hamas is correct not to trust the ceasefire because the other side is a bad actor? That sounds weird.
No. Israel is not offering Hamas a permanent ceasefire (or at least it hasn't yet). Bad faith would be if Israel was offering a permanent ceasefire with Hamas, with no expectation to follow through; which is what Hamas has done with every ceasefire to date (although in fairness there has never been any expectation Hamas is anything but a bad faith actor, so no one is ever surprised)
Israel is offering a temporary humanitarian ceasefire with hostage/prisoner exchanges after which point it will resume hostilities with Hamas until Hamas is finished. Israel is offering peace with the Palestinian people in a post Hamas world.
Unfortunately, Hamas is remarkably indifferent to the condition and fate of the Palestinian people, and is only interested in their own political survival; so Israel not offering them any assurances of survival is the main hurdle towards even a temporary ceasefire.
They’ve been reporting it on NPR as well since Syria fell, how multicultural Syria is and how many communities are now at serious risk under the new regime. This is not an unverifiable issue.
Le Monde reported on the summary execution of some Assad thugs, but this remark was telling.
"They're shabiha," explains the man filming, referring to the name given to the just-fallen Bashar Al-Assad's henchmen. "Alawite pigs," he adds as an insult to the last two prisoners, referring to the religious minority of Shiism to which the Assad family belongs.
Should Alawites fear pogroms in the near future, or indeed other minorities in Syria? I really feel for the Syrian people and hope things don't go the route that I'm worried they might.
Still will never get why you hate Israel so much, but peace will not be achieved with hamas in power
Israel will accept the Palestinian Authority even though they are less than ideal, but at least that will:
Unite the governments of Gaza and the West Bank
Have a government in that has at least shown a little that they recognize Israel and want peace
And hopefully lead to a permanent solution
Le Monde reported on the summary execution of some Assad thugs, but this remark was telling.
Should Alawites fear pogroms in the near future, or indeed other minorities in Syria? I really feel for the Syrian people and hope things don't go the route that I'm worried they might.
Many of us said it from the day they took over
this is probably good for the stability of Israel (relatively, compared to the Russia/Iranian backed Assad regime), but probably not for the Syrian People that want to practice religion freely
The Israelis treated Sinwar, literally saving his life. Inadvertently praising the Israelis while trying to smear them. Lmao.
Anyways, any idea what Trump is going to do when Jan 20th rolls around and Hamas still hasn’t released the hostages?
Sinwar was in the their custody. they didnt fly him from a foreign battlefield.
and that was 20 years ago. now they are brutally torturing doctors and other innocents to death on a routine basis.
Are you saying Israel will continue the attacks after the hostages are returned?
It isn't a giant mystery what terms Israel are offering. It is explicitly spelled out in Israeli media.
I understand Western media is horribly biased and sucky, so it is hard to get any true idea of what is going on from them. But like I said, you can always go to Israeli media. Here is some non paywalled sites where you can get these details on front page stories
ynet
timesofisrael
jerusalempost
--There is also the issue that most people (including Hamas themselves) dont think Hamas will come anywhere close to living up to their terms in whatever the first phase turns out being. So Hamas wants assurances Israel wont use them being bad faith actors as pretense to resume hostilities. Hamas basically wants assurances Israel will hold up its side even if they dont hold up theirs.
But those are biased Zionist Western American Israeli propaganda mouthpieces. Surely you’d get much better, unbiased opinions from bot accounts on Twitter and TikTok.
