Israel/Palestine thread

bundy, I didnt back Trump.

and as Ive said a million times, its literally impossible to be worse than Biden and the Dems. the fact that there is a ceasefire and 100s arent being slaughtered every day and aid is returning and people are rebuilding is a massive win even if Trump allows Israel to return to Democrat level genocide.

You will read a lot of cope in the last few pages, that's for sure.

I will also ask you this follow up question that once the Russian war is ended and Putin is allowed to go back onto main stream media after say 5 years and is interviewed - would it particularly surprise you to find out that there was an ally (albeit a secret ally) that Trump and Netanyahu had in this war and the outcomes they are seeking for the Gaza strip in Putin given his deep religious views? And would that then change any of your views about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict once that came out?

I think a lot of people just come from a place of geopolitical ignorance. I think you expected the Democrats to dictate what Israel can and can't do when that is just plain ignorant.

There was an inevitability here where one side was going to wipe out the other and the current paradigm is Palestinians going to war against machine guns and missiles with rocks and condom bombs (lol). Maybe you expect the whole world to step in and protect the little guy with zero consideration of history and context? I really can't wrap my head around your stance.

I've never seen a good solution come out of someone holding your point of view

no I dont know why you would think that I care about Putin

also I have no idea why you are so certain that the US decides this. they couldnt enforce it under Biden so why do you think Trump will succeed?

...You're gonna starve them out? Do you honestly regard what you just said as a valid counterpoint? Whether Trump actually attempts what he stated or is just blowing hot air, either way, the justification for forcible displacement is pretty disturbing.

Defending his country against a fanatical death cult like Hamas, who wish to wipe his country off the map doesn't make Blue a terrorist.

and it's understable that some are supporting trump when the words may be be noise but the reality for gaza has so far been a relief.

I do think they are misguided but the the ridicule we have seen here is pretty disgusting.

You responded to me and you quoted my post, so I assume you were responding to that post. So, from what I said in that post, explain to me what you are talking as my point of view. What "stance" are you talking about? Try to at least use something, anything I said in the post you replied to if only to prove that you know how to read.

If you have to ask people if it's ok to treat human beings the same as wild animals you should probably stop posting on a politics forum.

In fact there are several other things you should stop doing too, but I'm not allowed to list them.

We will have to see what these Trump comments turn into. If you watch the red triangle videos from the week before the ceasefire, the IDF was getting smoked by IEDs in Beit Hanoun, and now the Gazans are turning all the unexploded ordinance into more of them as fast as possible. These people's motto is "we win or we die," so things could get very ugly for the US military if they try to enter the territory. Boots on the ground are necessary, and its tough to avoid IEDs when you have to clear the way with bulldozers and get from point A to point B in tanks.

Also, there are long-term geopolitical implications to consider. If the US proceeds with a protracted campaign in Gaza, team Russia/China will be loving it, as not only will it divert military resources, but it will help with their long-term goals of (a) weakening the dollar and (b) shattering the image of the America-led Western world as the good guy (this has been pretty much accomplished in the developing world, but more discord will be sowed within developed countries).

Another factor is that, since the Democrats are the anti-Trump party, if Trump goes all out on Gaza, they might actually have to put forward a pro-Palestinian candidate in 2028. And since there is no light at the end of the tunnel for the US economically given the massive deficits, interest payments on the national debt exceeding the military budget, and inflation waiting in the wings should they choose to quantitatively ease to bring down long term rates, it's very likely the Dems will have the edge in the next election.

For now, my read is that Trump is posturing to make up for the embarrassment of the ceasefire for Israel, but we will see... he is very unpredictable.

The Irish left in 1845 because there was no food and no one was bringing them any. Was that starving them out?

The idea that you have to fully supply the people trying to destroy you, making very little demands, while they make no effort to provide for themselves, is actually a pretty wild one if you think about it.

And Gaza is actually worse than Ireland circa 1845. Ireland went through a temporary environmental disaster.

Gaza has never had any capacity to provide for itself, wonÂ’t ever anytime soon if ever (as there is no economy to speak of and it is in an increasingly inhospitable desert) but the people there insist Israel and the rest of the world provide for their generational jihad.

We all act like this is completely normal and how things are supposed to go. But it is probably the first time in the history of humanity things have played out like this.

Pretty much any other time in history the Palestinians would have had to move somewhere that actually had food, and made enough peace with their neighbors to grow said food.

Even in every other refugee situation in the 20th century the western world providing for the refugees would have made some attempt to relocate them somewhere where it was actually viable to live without being at perpetual war.

Everything about this situation is so bizarre. And the loaded rhetoric so unproductive.

There was plenty of food in 1845. The British were stealing it all.

lol

You can laugh about them stealing food because, yes, they weren't literally taking all the food from colonies, but what they did take was arable land. They and other imperialists turn diverse agricultural land in colonies to whatever monocrop they wanted to import: cotton, sugar, tea. People in colonized lands then became dependent on colonial powers not only for any cash into their countries, but often for imports of grain. USA said **** that and was powerful, well positioned, lucky enough to gain independence not just politically, but economically.

Not directly theft of food, but a theft of the ability to have food independence.

And I see what they were talking about, and right, The Enclosure Acts.

Dunno what you're loling about this is one of the few occasions where Vic is absolutely correct .

Yes.

I've read the rest of your post. I haven't addressed it point by point as ultimately it's justification for crimes against humanity with the subtle dehumanisation of the Palestinian people as opposed to Hamas. Boil it all down and you're essentially saying it takes a monster to kill a monster and I'm not accepting that.
I'm pro Israel. I strongly believe in their right to exist and defend itself. I'm fully aware Hamas use their people as human shields and am prepared to give Israel a lot of leeway in this regard.

And as someone who us pro Israel I say ansolute and utter shame on anyone trying to justify forced displacement and redefine war crimes for their own benefit. Fix your moral compasses as your justifications and excuses are obscene.

Im on board with solutions. I asked you a few times, what is yours. The lack of response is understandable, but you do realize that for me it is something I cannot live with, as this has real life implications.
I want peace or at least the promise of safety. Any solution is acceptable for me, if it is not just extermination of people.
For you, a war crime sounds like a black line that should not be crossed. For me, this definition is meaningless. When I lost my first friend in combat, back in 2002, who died in our arms, I didn’t feel: thank God he died from an approved Geneva convention weapon, and not some kind of munition that is considered illegal under law. I feel very different about the legality of war and of solutions for this conflict, as Im directly impacted by it.
Do I want the Palestinians to be displaced? No.
Do I think that in certain ways it is a fair solution? Yes.
Also and as stated before- it will not happed so this is all a theoretical debate

I believe in rights and accountability. If the Palestinians get their own state, I hope they will finally be deradicalized. If not, then we can charge a higher price when it’s a war between nations.

You have no idea what I have done and still am doing for the Palestinians. Im not aboard with you on anything you keyboard warrior.

As per your solution:

What are the borders of this state?
What about the refugees?
Are you speaking for the Palestinians or do you think your solution can be accepted by them?
and if they don't accept it, what then?

There wasn't enough food because the monocrop potatoes fields failed. Ofc that was down the line causally because of the english, but not in the sense of "there was food but they were stealing it" (which is instead what happened in the indian famine under churchill)

There was a potato shortage, not a meat or wheat shortage and they were stealing it as they stole the land via invasion and denied it to those who were starving.

corpus, check this

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2025/0206/1495021-israel-katz-ireland/

RTE.ie

Israel minister's Gaza comments 'a distraction' - Harris

I think he is right that countries like Ireland should take in people from Gaza

So corpus vile can see oppression when it happens to "his" people.

The only time in history Victor has ever been right in corpus' opinion is when Victor was talking about oppression of Ireland.