Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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‘Pandemonium’: Palestinian Americans React to Trump’s Gaza Takeover Plan
'Angry', 'numb' - Palestinian Americans on Trump's Gaza comments
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/arab-am...
Arab American, Muslim leaders decry Trump comments on Gaza
Well yeah! The most obvious election grift in my lifetime to be honest
Not really, since Ireland imported more food than it exported during the Famine, the bulk being subsidised US imports arranged by the government, with the infamous tariff laws repealed mainly for that purpose. The problem was monocrop farming, a product of colonial landlordism, which meant that when the potatoes failed the poorest tenant farmers couldn't afford alternative sources of food.
In Britain they always grew at least one other crop, usually oats, so the situation wasn't as dire. But also the local relief programmes in Britain were more immediate and more effective than in Ireland, where some big landlords held out against them -- like the Earl of Lucan up at Castlebar, who saw the whole thing as a good excuse to evict unwanted tenants. (I come from an old Castlebar family, as it happens. There are none of us left in Ireland, we're all diaspora now, though that wasn't directly because of the Famine, it was later.)
When the government eventually got around to a national famine-relief programme, it wasn't something any government had done before and there weren't the institutions to handle it. The initial workfare scheme (mainly road-mending) was a bit disorganised, and they went over to a dole policy which did mitigate the later years of the Famine. They then spent the next fifty years on land reform to prevent the situation recurring, which was successful, but it should have happened before the 1840s because the problem was known -- it was a disaster waiting to happen -- and there'd been various inquiries whose recommendations were not acted on, presumably because the big landlords objected. After the Famine, the government was readier to overrule the landlords.
You were cheering the October 7th atrocities by Hamas. Then you condemn Blue and the IDF as terrorists for their reactive defence. So your perception of what constitutes a terrorist doesn't need to be entertained by anyone rational .
Netanyahu gifts Trump a ‘golden pager’ during visit — in nod to stunning attack that took out Hezbollah terrorists: report
“That was a great operation,” Trump said at the gift-giving, the report said.
In return, Trump gave Netanyahu a photo of the two of them from the visit with the dedication: “To Bibi, a great leader.”
Spoiler
But there's no difference between Biden and Trump here!
Im on board with solutions. I asked you a few times, what is yours. The lack of response is understandable, but you do realize that for me it is something I cannot live with, as this has real life implications.
I want peace or at least the promise of safety. Any solution is acceptable for me, if it is not just extermination of people.
For you, a war crime sounds like a black line that should not be crossed. For me, this definition is meaningless. When I lost my first friend in combat, back in 20
I'm not required to come up with a solution. You also appear to be implying that if I can't provide an alternative solution, then the only option is forced displacement? I'm not accepting that. Israel could launch another assassination campaign on Hamas leaders and create a buffer zone between Gaza and Israel and anyone attempting to go through the buffer zone does so at their peril under threat of lethal force. And if a buffer zone means a smaller Gaza then boo hoo for Hamas.
I'm not saying that would be perfect but it would be better than displacement of millions against their will.
I'm aware it has life and death consequences for you and your country is under existential threat. That doesn't give you the right to forsake your humanity by justifying war crimes and attempt to redefine war crimes by arguing subjectivity. And it's not just a line for me it's against international law and with good reason. You have my genuine honest sympathy for losing your friend but with respect, maybe the entirety of circumstances is making you think emotionally, so forced displacement becomes acceptable to you. It isn't acceptable. And your real and valid fears won't change this, sorry.
And while I'm inclined to agree with you re this being rhetorical, neither of us know this and in a way it's beside the point as I've seen several posters trying to justify the concept nonetheless . You cannot justify crimes against humanity and hand waving away such crimes as legal definitions really doesn't cut it.
There's also pragmatic concerns quite apart from it being morally repugnant. You forcibly displace an already pissed off radicalised populace possibly worldwide, then you're potentially putting Jews worldwide at risk.
Like I said you can't fight monsters by becoming a monster.
Not really, since Ireland imported more food than it exported during the Famine, the bulk being subsidised US imports arranged by the government, with the infamous tariff laws repealed mainly for that purpose. The problem was monocrop farming, a product of colonial landlordism, which meant that when the potatoes failed the poorest tenant farmers couldn't afford alternative sources of food.
In Britain they always grew at least one other crop, usually oats, so the situation wasn't as dire. But also
England could have easily fed those starving. They didn't. We were transported to Bermuda for "stealing" our own food. One million of us starved and even more forced to emigrate. Trevalyan said the Famine was sent by God to teach the Irish a lesson. England has the blood of those one million dead on its hands and are responsible for it.
Right or wrong, Gaza has no future and neither do the Palestinians living there. Between 10/7, the last years war, and the way the Palestinians have paraded hostages through the streets in the last couple weeks; they have just gone too far. Both Egypt and Israel are just going to build walls higher and higher and thicker and thicker to separate themselves. There really is no turning back.
That being said, I dont expect the rest of the world to accept this reality. They will keep this absurdity going indefinitely.
So Gazans living in tents, being completely dependent on foreign handouts with no capacity or interest in building a functional society, and holding mass rallies chanting they are going to march into Israel and destroy it I guess is just how things are going to be moving forward.
Never said the only time in history I said very rare and do you have a point to make? Spit it out mate.
You keep reminding everyone you have me on ignore, but so that they can see what a hypocrite you are it's obvious you wouldn't have supported the UK government carrying out collective punishment of Irish people for the atrocities committed by the IRA in the 1970s and 80s, but you do support this in Gaza.
England could have easily fed those starving. They didn't. We were transported to Bermuda for "stealing" our own food. One million of us starved and even more forced to emigrate. Trevalyan said the Famine was sent by God to teach the Irish a lesson. England has the blood of those one million dead on its hands and are responsible for it.
Even this is small compared to the ~12 million Africans forced into slavery and transported across the Atlantic (or their dead bodies tossed overboard).
And btw it's not "England", it's the UK government.
Right or wrong, Gaza has no future and neither do the Palestinians living there. Between 10/7, the last years war, and the way the Palestinians have paraded hostages through the streets in the last couple weeks; they have just gone too far. Both Egypt and Israel are just going to build walls higher and higher and thicker and thicker to separate themselves. There really is no turning back.
That being said, I dont expect the rest of the world to accept this reality. They will keep this absurd
I wouldn't have a problem with big walls actually. Northern Ireland has "peace lines" of walls and huge fences separating both communities. And it's better than forced displacement.
Even this is small compared to the ~12 million Africans forced into slavery and transported across the Atlantic (or their dead bodies tossed overboard).
And btw it's not "England", it's the UK government.
No it isn't, as a proportion of the population it isn't at all, and it happened all in a few years unlike the centuries needed for the 12M africans slaves.
Oh and other africans helped the slave trade most of the times, while nothing of the sort happened with the irish.
The irish were treated far worse by the UK and suffered *a lot more* than africans ever did
So these people were complaining about living in an open air prison but now they are begging to stay. Interesting!
common refrain throughout history is that oppressors want peace. to them "peace" means that the underclass shuts up and accepts their inferiority and lack of rights.
The reality is Trump saw the complete footage of Oct 7th. He now understands what Israel is up against. The Gazans have only themselves to blame.
Perhaps you and your friend should take the time to also watch this footage. You may not be running your mouths after this.
Ive seen most of it. it pales in comparison to the atrocities from the Israelis.
Spain, Norway and Ireland are now legally obligated to take in Gazans. Good luck with that. Maybe next time they will keep their yaps shut.
