Israel/Palestine thread

Victor can explain how they were secret zionists so they ontologically deserve extermination.

Or that those lying (((Israelis))) actually did it

since when do you guys care about Palestinians being tortured to death? are you just mad that Israel wasnt the ones doing it?

I guest you are concluding that permits Israel to kill even more Palestinian ….?

And so ?
What reaction you expect from the west ?
You think they don’t know ?
U think the west would not differentiate between Hamas people and civilians people and would agree to kill all of them now ?

Il say again , Palestinian are stuck between , die if u do something or die if u don’t .
They all end up cause not a shred of humanity exist anymore on both side of this war .
Well played Israel .
Th

Obama had the opportunity to do it. He chose to betray those who voted for him. I can't remember if anything involving healthcare was in play, but the Dems hid behind the parliamentarian during covid to duck their campaign promises.

People want universal healthcare. Elites who fund campaigns don't. You need money to win elections. You need money to make credible promises to capable people. If you take the money of an industry to run and hook them up they might give you a board seat somewhere. Do you think any banker in the universe wants to hear Hillary Clinton's thoughts on finance? They don't but they pay her 400k for a half hour of her time. As a grass roots org even if somehow you raised enough money to buy an election, do you have anything with which to bribe the politician? If Barrack Obama gonna go with the community sponsored movement or the Pritzkers? Now Mr. community organizer Barrack Obungler is worth 70 million.

Money narrows down choices to where people get to choose between culture war avatars. Israel's genocide is supported by both sides and by monied interests. It, like most important policies, is not something you can vote for or against.

Actually it does .
If I was living in gaza and you could vote democrats just to help me by 1% , I would of been glad .

And again I promise you in the end palestinian will end up worst then 1% with trump.

If you believe being better off isnt important for those living over there you are sadly mistaken .
Actually by not voting and letting trump in , you probably cost life yourself just by pure ideology .

Me I would of been pragmatic and voted for the lesser evil saving more lifes.
And that’s on you .

Hamas engage in torture murders. Your response is "well played Israel". You absolutely react to anything Israel does but when it comes to Hamas, it's "hey what reaction do you expect from the west bro? Well played Israel!".

You people are effin unbelievable. 😆

The ‘Who’ got it a long time ago why voting doesn’t matter:

“Meet the new boss.. same as the old boss”

I won’t get fooled again!!!

source on these torture murders? all I have seen is a post from Dunyain and I dont think he is the most reliable.

You’re lying (or more likely) completely misinformed. Obama passed pretty much the most expansive healthcare vote he could. Barely passed through Congress and upheld by a single vote in the Supreme Court. Because these “people” you talk about that want universal healthcare don’t vote, starting with the 2010 midterms and continuing on into all primaries nothing has been really improved. But just objectively most uninsured people are in Texas and Florida and voters could reduce that by 60% percent without changing a single law. But people don’t vote to simply do that.

Taking political advice from celebrities and musicians is always recommended. Good job buddy. The far left might end up solving themselves for the US and the West.

I see this guy hasn’t put much thought into the conflict beyond reading some cartoons. Makes sense lol.

Unlike whether or not there is a genocide happening in Gaza, the viability of universal healthcare in the early part of Obama's first term is debatable. I'm not completely misinformed or lying. This debate kind of parallels the debate about "force the vote", the movement to withhold support for Pelosi unless she gave some concessions to the Dem's progressive wing. A lot of people said it was pointless and cited a bunch of incomprehensible arguments that might be summed up as "3D chess you can't understand". Then we saw the Repubs employ the tactic to great effect. Here, you say Obama, despite having strong majorities in the House and Senate, couldn't have passed universal healthcare, a signature issue on which he ran. But we are seeing Trump come into power with less of a mandate and less congressional support and he is being allowed to dismantle the government and do whatever he wants.

Do you think Trump and the Repubs couldn't pass universal healthcare if they had strong majorities in the senate and house and their constituency overwhelmingly wanted it?

You are being very myopic in blaming voters for not voting for those aligned with the material interests. The proper blame would say something like voters are unable to dismantle the system which sees elites use money to narrow the choices on the ballot in ways which ensure the elite agenda stays intact. People are working hard. Those of us who have the time or inclination to try to open up the electoral system are facing well paid lawyers and laws on the books which are downright contemptuous to anything but the current system. The voting system is a system that ranges over many aspects. We don't live in a world where everything people want is on the ballot and they have but to vote for it, so it is nonsensical to criticize the public as if that's the case.

There was an unverified Gaza Now video on Telegram back in January which apparently showed Hamas executing six men in Rafah for 'collaborating'. No mention of torture, though it's obviously likely the victims would have been brutalised first. 17 people were also allegedly shot in the feet for 'raising prices', which probably means selling off looted aid supplies for private gain without giving Hamas its usual cut.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/video-appe...

Various sources say Hamas have executed about 200 'collaborators' since the war began. But the 'collaboration' is never specified and this is probably just score-settling with people who've happened to annoy some bombhead Hamas goon in some way.

its no secret that Hamas has executed some colloboraters. it would be a lot better if they could be properly tried in a court of law before any sort of punishment is meted. that doesnt really seem feasible for obvious reasons.

the rest of your post is speculation and it seems to derive from the idea that Hamas is somehow uniquely evil and barbaric according to typical Western propaganda tropes of backwards natives.

one thing Sinwar expounds on at length in his book is the need to properly identify spies and colloboraters and that such mob rule and score settling is extremely counterproductive.

In other news it is being reported that in the failed direct negotiations with Hamas, the US offered $2 billion and security guarantees in exchange for Hamas leadership going into exile and releasing the 50+ hostages (and the 2 million Palestinians they are holding hostage).

Hamas leadership said **** no. Resistance, paid for by the West, is just too big of a gravy train to give up. It doesn't matter how many people have to die to keep that gravy train rolling.

And unfortunately, Western establishments have been bought and paid for, so they will just keep the gravy train rolling and put no pressure on Hamas to free the 2 million Palestinians and 50+ Israelis they are holding hostage.

Was the 2 billions offer under Biden or under Trump? Source?

No, it derives from a certain knowledge of paramilitaries. And the paramilitaries with which I'm most familiar came from my own country.

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/ry6rbji...

-according to this article the primary source is a Qatari owned outlet. I assume it was the recent failed negotiations with the Trump administration.

The fact it was a Qatari outlet that made this report is interesting, as they are a main sponsor of Hamas. So this could be an indication they are losing their patience with Hamas refusal to return Israeli hostages and negotiate a real peace, which anyone sane realizes requires Hamas to go into exile.

Hamas probably remembers the mass murder spree the IDF led the last time Palestinian leaders demilitarized and took exile.

Although such a deal would require Israel to possibly grant clemency to a lot of Hamas terrorists who would invariably remain in the Strip.

With current facial recognition software, that works well even with masks on, Israel has undoubtably identified hundreds if not thousands of rank and file Hamas terrorists who would not be part of the exile package (including some who were part of the initial 10/7 invasion and massacres); so some sort of arrangement would probably have to be made for them.

Lol at the assumption Israel wouldn't just break the deal and continue genociding.

smol bean hamas exe-cute-ing collabowatos

It’s not super hard to understand, though you obviously do not understand it. There is a huge asymmetry between the republican and Democratic Party. Among republicans, the most conservative (older more religious more married with kids ) have higher propensity to vote so it pushes the party rightward, especially in primaries. Among democrats the most conservative (older, wealthier more religious more married with kids ) have higher propensity to vote so it pushes the party again rightward especially in primaries. Nothing contributes more to the current status quo than the strategy you’re advocating of people left of democrats sitting out elections. It’s been going on for 40+ years and if you’re unhappy with how things are you should be honest about the roll not voting has played in that.