Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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I think most people here know Iran is an amazing country with great people but here is a fun reminder
No. It is actually very bizarre how you literally dont acknowledge another country has been attacking Israel for almost a full year. You have a lot of posts in this thread and most of them dont even acknowledge Hamas, Hezbollah, IRI, etc. even exist or 10/7 happened. If someone just read your posts in this forum, with no other information, they would probably conclude Israel is just randomly going around killing Arabs for no reason other than to keep Netanyahu in power.
You do realize that e
You might find it bizarre but it's your bizarre construction. My views on hamas etc have been very clear.
Why on earth would hamas/hezbullah etc want to foil netanyahu? No-one has done more for their cause. They should build him a statue.
You might find it bizarre but it's your bizarre construction. My views on hamas etc have been very clear.
Why on earth would hamas/hezbullah etc want to foil netanyahu? No-one has done more for their cause. They should build him a statue.
Well, given the majority of Hamas leadership is dead (IDF got a few more even since Deif) if the cause is to die a martyr and get 72 virgins, then sure I guess.
I think most people here know Iran is an amazing country with great people but here is a fun reminder
Given Iran's people and history it really is wild the revolution even happened and been going for 40+ years. I read a little on it. Basically, a lot of different groups (many secular) allied to oppose the Shah for different reasons; and everyone else underestimated Khomeni's ability to just take over everything once the Shah was deposed.
And fast forward 45 years, and you have a country where most people seem normal, but the political leadership is a bunch of old men chanting "Death to USA, Death to Israel" like some bad guy carricature form a Borat or Austin Powers movie.
And for some reason the Democrat Party here loves the regime and is quietly doing everything it can to keep them in power.
I accept that you dont agree that netanayhu's actions are both monstrous and stupid.
I dont know if you think it's monstrous but wise
I accept that you dont agree that netanayhu's actions are both monstrous and stupid.
I dont know if you think it's monstrous but wise
First off, I dont subscribe to a worldview Islamists and their supporters have no moral agency because they are "brown" or oppressed. So whatever monstrosity I would establish to Israel, go ahead and multiply it by 5 and that is what I attribute to Islamists, including Hamas.
Second, war is monstrous, especially when one side cynically does a brutal surprise attack to massacre and kidnap your civilians and then hides behind its own civilians. As far as monstrous actions go, I dont uncritically accept all the anti Israel propaganda as you do, so I think you perception of their actions is incorrect. I am also not convinced this is a worse scenario than what you would propose. I think appeasement would generally lead to much worse outcomes, especially to Israel, in the long run.
Once 10/7 happened and IRI/Hezbollah immediately decided to open a second front in the North, and the IRI's other proxies started getting involved too, I dont think Israel has had a lot of great options. And given their priority is (and should be) guaranteeing Israel's survival, and not minimizing the life of Palestinian civilians Hamas is using as human shields while they attack Israel, I am not as convinced as you are their are strategically or morally making a "monstrous" decision.
Everyone has moral agency. That bit seemed a red herring.
Although you then seem to be saying that israel didn't have much agency so netanyahu isn't really responsible for the monstrosies that are happening? We disagree
We also dont agree that this is guranteeing israel's survival - any risk is being significantly increased.
I accept that you dont agree that netanayhu's actions are both monstrous and stupid.
I dont know if you think it's monstrous but wise
You really just need to look at the 7th of October attacks to know that Netanyahu and his policies on Gaza were incredibly stupid.
The terrorist acts by Hamas was a predictable culmination of years brutal policies in Gaza, but the way it ended up going down also represents a complete failure in security policy, oversight and intelligence gathering. The kind of organization, infrastructure and equipment you need to conduct an operation of that scale is massive. From what we know, they picked up chatter about an operation, which failed to go up through the channels. But this seems also like somewhat of an excuse, it is clear they that they completely failed on the ground.
It also seems obvious to me that that he and his government went down the typical path of nationalist dingbats, and simply replaced critical voices throughout various chains of command with yes-men. For nationalists, the appearance of strength is always more important than actual strength.
Israel is a small nation which relies perhaps more than any other in the world on its security policies being firmly rooted in reality, they can't really afford leaders or governments with that kind of vanity.
It should also clearly answer the question if right-wing nationalism is somehow capable of making Israel more safe. I think it is stupid that this is even a debate, but now at least it is clear that the answer is a resounding no.
total mystery
So seems like **** is going to hit the anytime in the next 24 hours.
its constantly hitting for Gazans in tents or schools or shelters. every day there is another horrifying massacre that isnt even worth posting about bc its just been normalized. liberalism is built on blood.
doesnt Russia need those weapons for themselves?
Pure speculation on my part, but Russia and Ukraine have a detente in the Black Sea, so Russian anti ship missiles are probably not going to do much in the war. Since the Houthis are mostly firing those missiles it makes sense.
You might find it bizarre but it's your bizarre construction. My views on hamas etc have been very clear.
Why on earth would hamas/hezbullah etc want to foil netanyahu? No-one has done more for their cause. They should build him a statue.
For starters, the non crazies among them don't like being assassinated.
Hamas' ideal Israeli leader is a hardliner that keeps the gloves on. Not someone who takes the gloves off and will actually go after them.
And I dread the implications of that.
Like 75% of Hamas leaders have been assassinated, and counting. On top of that, Israel is using facial recognition technology to recognize and kill/capture pretty much everyone that crossed the border on 10/7.
When the smoke clears there may be something called Hamas still kicking in Gaza, but it isn't going to be the Hamas of October 6th.
Like 75% of Hamas leaders have been assassinated, and counting. On top of that, Israel is using facial recognition technology to recognize and kill/capture pretty much everyone that crossed the border on 10/7.
When the smoke clears there may be something called Hamas still kicking in Gaza, but it isn't going to be the Hamas of October 6th.
If they're allowed to continue to exist, they'll rebuild no problems. Israel has provided them plenty of soldiers to choose from.
Eradicate Hamas or continue to defend yourself against October 7-like attacks.
If they're allowed to continue to exist, they'll rebuild no problems. Israel has provided them plenty of soldiers to choose from.
Eradicate Hamas or continue to defend yourself against October 7-like attacks.
They may rebuild, but it is going to be different people with different objectives and capabilities. Maybe worse. But the Hamas that was constructed in the 1980s with the express goal to destroy Israel from the river to the sea is more or less gone.
