Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
And Shoigu is in Iran now. What is this, a crossover episode?
They may rebuild, but it is going to be different people with different objectives and capabilities. Maybe worse. But the Hamas that was constructed in the 1980s with the express goal to destroy Israel from the river to the sea is more or less gone.
It's an ideology. Killing a bunch of soldiers and potential leaders won't get rid of that ideology. If Israel doesn't commit to de-radicalizing Gazans they'll be fighting them for the next 2000 years. Other Arab countries most likely won't do it so Israel(+ maybe other Western countries?) will have to. Unless of-course Israel would like to stay in this never ending conflict.
It's an ideology. Killing a bunch of soldiers and potential leaders won't get rid of that ideology. If Israel doesn't commit to de-radicalizing Gazans they'll be fighting them for the next 2000 years. Other Arab countries most likely won't do it so Israel(+ maybe other Western countries?) will have to. Unless of-course Israel would like to stay in this never ending conflict.
So not responding to Oct 7 would going to de-radicalize Hamas and pave the way for a lasting peace? Can you walk us through a hypothetical timeline of events?
Like 75% of Hamas leaders have been assassinated, and counting. On top of that, Israel is using facial recognition technology to recognize and kill/capture pretty much everyone that crossed the border on 10/7.
When the smoke clears there may be something called Hamas still kicking in Gaza, but it isn't going to be the Hamas of October 6th.
If assassinating leaders worked, Israel would have enslaved the Palestinians years ago.
So not responding to Oct 7 would going to de-radicalize Hamas and pave the way for a lasting peace? Can you walk us through a hypothetical timeline of events?
Eradicate Hamas or continue to defend yourself against October 7-like attacks.
Please read first before you ask ridiculous questions. No where do I mention ''not responding to oct 7''.
Eradicating Hamas is not something Israel can achieve alone, even with infinite backing from the US. Completely dismantling Hamas’ capabilities to launch a large scale attack on Israel from right on their border is something they can achieve.
Israel needs to completely eradicate Hamas but assassinating their leaders is stupid? Your position seems unclear.
a bit over 100 years actually. one of the lies that is promulgated is that this is an old conflict. this is just an attempt to transfer the guilt of the Inquisition, pogroms, Pale, and Holocaust onto the Palestinians.
Eradicating Hamas is not something Israel can achieve alone, even with infinite backing from the US. Completely dismantling Hamas’ capabilities to launch a large scale attack on Israel from right on their border is something they can achieve.
Hamas just launched rocket attacks the last 3 days and CNN just came out with an article that claimed only 3 of their brigades have lost combat effectiveness. so it doesnt seem they have made much progress in that department.
^
Interesting
I guess you missed the “large scale” part. I’m sure in your mind Hamas is a day away from marching down the streets of Jerusalem and conquering Israel. Let us know when you come back down to Earth.
Eradicating Hamas is not something Israel can achieve alone, even with infinite backing from the US. Completely dismantling Hamas’ capabilities to launch a large scale attack on Israel from right on their border is something they can achieve.
Thanks Doyle.
Israel needs to completely eradicate Hamas but assassinating their leaders is stupid? Your position seems unclear.
Again. Just awful at reading. Never once said assassinating leaders is stupid. Said that killing a bunch of soldiers and leaders isn't going to get rid of Hamas because Hamas is an ideology. Which was a direct response to the claim that ''Hamas is all but gone''.
It's also why the Gazans need to be de-radicalized. This really isn't that complicated.
^
Interesting
I guess you missed the “large scale” part. I’m sure in your mind Hamas is a day away from marching down the streets of Jerusalem and conquering Israel. Let us know when you come back down to Earth.
how many large scale attacks has Hamas launched in the last 20 years?
I think that as long as the Palestinians exist and are not completely enslaved then they are winning bc I have read enough about Israel and the Zionists where they explicitly endorse this.
Eradicating Hamas is not something Israel can achieve alone, even with infinite backing from the US. Completely dismantling Hamas’ capabilities to launch a large scale attack on Israel from right on their border is something they can achieve.
Israel needs to completely eradicate Hamas but assassinating their leaders is stupid? Your position seems unclear.
if enough palestinians decide to flee we could reach a point where the remaining ones are few enough that Israel can actually militarily occupy those lands as long as necessary to guarantee Hamas, or anything like it, can never come back again in any organized form.
Maybe it could take decades sure but we can finance that, instead of giving money to UNRWA
how many large scale attacks has Hamas launched in the last 20 years?
I think that as long as the Palestinians exist and are not completely enslaved then they are winning bc I have read enough about Israel and the Zionists where they explicitly endorse this.
Ok cool. They win then because no one is trying to enslave them, except maybe Hamas or other groups of radical Islamists.
Or they can all move to the UK and Canada if those countries, as their leaders say, want to help more refugees
Thanks Doyle.
Again. Just awful at reading. Never once said assassinating leaders is stupid. Said that killing a bunch of soldiers and leaders isn't going to get rid of Hamas because Hamas is an ideology. Which was a direct response to the claim that ''Hamas is all but gone''.
It's also why the Gazans need to be de-radicalized. This really isn't that complicated.
So can you walk us through this chain of events? How are you de-radicalizing the Gazans without killing a bunch of Hamas soldiers and leaders?
Everyone has moral agency. That bit seemed a red herring.
Although you then seem to be saying that israel didn't have much agency so netanyahu isn't really responsible for the monstrosies that are happening? We disagree
We also dont agree that this is guranteeing israel's survival - any risk is being significantly increased.
Why?
I have asked the same question in various forms and I'll ask again in a more direct way.
Why do you think the threat to Israel has increased when such a threat has decreased EVERY TIME Israel took its gloves off against its aggressors? Hizbollah is begging to not escalate. Iran is practically groveling to find a way to save face. All of its Arab neighbors have been tacitly acknowledging Israel's right to exist. Jordan even helped Israel intercept drones from Iran.
Violence begets violence is a very popular saying but in Israel's case, overwhelming violence has proven to be a much better deterrent than appeasement.
I guess you missed the “large scale” part. I’m sure in your mind Hamas is a day away from marching down the streets of Jerusalem and conquering Israel. Let us know when you come back down to Earth.
I thought Hamas was an existential threat to Israel? Wasn't that the whole justification for the ongoing bloodbath?
