Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Also, it's funny to me that the entirety of the pro-Palestinian side has apparently memory holed that there was a temporary ceasefire in place which Hamas broke. All this concern trolling about the dead and none of you care at all that it was Hamas that is responsible for this. Nations can't just sit by as terrorists capture their citizens and rockets are fired at their homes indiscriminately.
Wait are you talking about the fact that every Israeli is forced to conscript? You realize that not every role in the IDF is a military role, right?
Is the source on this your crack pipe or are we just doing blood libel now?
yes they really abducted Dr. Khaled Alser and he told his lawyer he was tortured and no one has heard from him in months.
its cool. hes proly just a human shield for terrorist. or maybe an elite Hamas commander himself.
Also, it's funny to me that the entirety of the pro-Palestinian side has apparently memory holed that there was a temporary ceasefire in place which Hamas broke. All this concern trolling about the dead and none of you care at all that it was Hamas that is responsible for this. Nations can't just sit by as terrorists capture their citizens and rockets are fired at their homes indiscriminately.
its weird that yesterday you were definitely of the opinion that there was no ceasefire on Oct 6th when you wrote this post.
On you know what’s really amazing about this? They are literally lying about him being 17. I guess when it’s a Palestinian 18 year old hanging out one block from a firefight surrounded by terrorist insurgents, he suddenly becomes an innocent 17 year old at the top of his class.
It’s absolute BS that in the middle of a firefight, someone would be hanging out by a wall. You mean to tell me that a Palestinian person who was in the midst of a year long raid against border cities on the West Bank targ
Did you even read what I was saying? I said it doesn't matter in the context of them getting to "200k eventually" because that 200k figure is based on indirect deaths. They're not going to get to 200k if we stop the war right now because there is massive international aid being given to the population of Gaza.
I did. I don't care how you rationalize your insanity. It obviously does matter. The rebuild will take years. It's honestly sad how people like you dehumanize the Palestinians.
Also, it's funny to me that the entirety of the pro-Palestinian side has apparently memory holed that there was a temporary ceasefire in place which Hamas broke. All this concern trolling about the dead and none of you care at all that it was Hamas that is responsible for this. Nations can't just sit by as terrorists capture their citizens and rockets are fired at their homes indiscriminately.
Yes I blame Hamas but stop talking nonsense
Yeah I'm the one not reading.
yes they really abducted Dr. Khaled Alser and he told his lawyer he was tortured and no one has heard from him in months.
its cool. hes proly just a human shield for terrorist. or maybe an elite Hamas commander himself.
What does this guy have to do with the Lancet article?
its weird that yesterday you were definitely of the opinion that there was no ceasefire on Oct 6th when you wrote this post.
Yes, I know all brown people look the same to Western leftists like you, but from what I can tell those were security operations in conjunction with the West Bank government controlled by the Palestinian Authority.
There was a ceasefire with Hamas prior to Oct 6, but also a ceasefire FROM THIS VERY SAME WAR
The initial agreement, mediated by Qatar, stipulated a four-day break in fighting during which 50 Israeli hostages held in Gaza and 150 Palestinian prisoners in Israel were to be released and more humanitarian aid will be allowed to enter Gaza, with the ceasefire subject to extension providing additional hostages are released.[1][2][3] On 27 November, Qatari Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced a two-day extension to the ceasefire was agreed in which 20 Israelis and 60 Palestinians would be released. Close to the end of the first extension, on 30 November, another one day extension to the truce was agreed upon by both sides.[4][5] The mediators in Qatar and in Egypt reported they worked to negotiate a further extension of the truce.[6]
The deal was welcomed internationally, including by the United States, which also supported the deal's extensions. Both sides have blamed each other for violating the ceasefire.[7] On 1 December, the truce ended with Hamas alleging that Israel rejected a hostage exchange deal to prolong the truce, and Hamas then launched rockets into Sderot.[8][9][10]
Let's also not forget the war could end right now if Hamas fighters and leaders lay down their arms.
I did. I don't care how you rationalize your insanity. It obviously does matter. The rebuild will take years. It's honestly sad how people like you dehumanize the Palestinians.
Yeah I'm the one not reading.
I'm not sure you even graduated middle school with this level of reading comprehension.
Wait are you talking about the fact that every Israeli is forced to conscript? You realize that not every role in the IDF is a military role, right?
Is the source on this your crack pipe or are we just doing blood libel now?
Yes, he’s been hung up on that for a while and keeps trying to goad people into “discussing” with him which is pretty funny.
Wait are you talking about the fact that every Israeli is forced to conscript? You realize that not every role in the IDF is a military role, right?
Is the source on this your crack pipe or are we just doing blood libel now?
Yes, he’s been hung up on that for a while and keeps trying to goad people into “discussing” with him which is pretty funny.
Not my fault people ignore the double standard
Lancet is Hamas, obv, anyone who documents the scale of the slaughter of Palestinians is Hamas.
If something has to be peer reviewed to be considered, then you should stop opining.
No, it doesn’t have to be peer reviewed to be considered, but if people are going to say “zomg it was published in the Lancet it must be true” then we should all be aware that it was a LETTER, not an ARTICLE, and that it wasn’t peer-reviewed. PLUS the methodology was terrible.
This is the article I was talking about. Are you referring to a different article?
Lancet is Hamas, obv, anyone who documents the scale of the slaughter of Palestinians is Hamas.
Where did I say Lancet was Hamas? Now you’re just blathering because you think “big number” = “bad war”. That’s a grade school level of thinking about wars.
I prefer to think of things in terms of whether a war was just and whether the army that was on the just side is following and enforcing a correct code of conduct in accordance with international law. So your 200k figure is meaningless to me, because I have no idea where those casualties are coming from and what the conduct was of Israel in this hypothetical. Anything that would get me to say that it’s bad would pretty much be tautologically bad.
this article
looks like theres a list of a few more doctors they can go after too!
Where did I say Lancet was Hamas? Now you’re just blathering because you think “big number” = “bad war”. That’s a grade school level of thinking about wars.
Yes, I think 200k dead is bad, I don't find it particularly insulting to describe this as "grade-school thinking." Most grade school kids know it's not okay to commit indiscriminate slaughter.
Lancet is a respected medical science journal, just hand-waving their conclusions away because they make you uncomfortable is silly and frankly offensive.
Gotchya so this had nothing to do with the casualty figures I was discussing and just another rabbit hole where you post an unsourced screenshot expecting everyone to just take your word for it when you lie constantly.
Yes, I think 200k dead is bad, I don't find it particularly insulting to describe this as "grade-school thinking." Most grade school kids know it's not okay to commit indiscriminate slaughter.
Lancet is a respected medical science journal, just hand-waving their conclusions away because they make you uncomfortable is silly and frankly offensive.
Oh got it, I guess you love Nazis and think that killing 200k Nazis during a war would be bad. Thank you for sharing with the class that you are a Nazi.
^ Note I don’t actually think you are a Nazi but this is pretty much the type of psychotic moralizing that this discussion can break down to when you pull out that type of argument.
Secondly, the Lancet does not peer-review correspondences, so it’s not “the Lancet” saying this. It’s on the same level as saying that the New York Times said something when they post a letter to the editor.
Oh got it, I guess you love Nazis and think that killing 200k Nazis during a war would be bad. Thank you for sharing with the class that you are a Nazi.
You're equating every man, woman, and child in Palestine with Nazis? None of them are civilians?
Man, just skip ahead to the part where you say 200,000 dead Palestinians is an acceptable cost for whatever it is Israel is accomplishing.
Secondly, the Lancet does not peer-review correspondences, so it’s not “the Lancet” saying this. It’s on the same level as saying that the New York Times said something when they post a letter to the editor.
*rolls eyes* fine, the Lancet is merely publishing it. It's still the best estimate we have on the full body count and you have no basis for engaging in genocide denial.
You're equating every man, woman, and child in Palestine with Nazis? None of them are civilians?
Man, just skip ahead to the part where you say 200,000 dead Palestinians is an acceptable cost for whatever it is Israel is accomplishing.
Holy crap are you actually following the conversation? Do you need a transcript?
We’re talking about a hypothetical situation where 200k people are killed. Stop dodging the hypothetical. Is every war where 200k people die unjust? Including if it’s again Nazis? Also you realize that during WW2 plenty of German civilians died because of the invasion, are you under the impression that no civilian dies in war? Have you ever thought about the morality of war for more than five seconds or did you just decide “war is bad” is an unimpeachable moral statement without any qualification?
*rolls eyes* fine, the Lancet is merely publishing it. It's still the best estimate we have on the full body count and you have no basis for engaging in genocide denial.
The Lancet didn’t “publish it” in the sense you are using that term, it’s equivocating. The Lancet basically thought it was interesting enough to put out there as a correspondence. They also put out a correspondence that questions people for not talking about how Hamas has genocidal intent and started the war. Should I also say that “the Lancet” published an “article” criticizing people for not talking about Hamas’s genocidal intent? Or would that be a completely stupid and dishonest framing?
Also, read the article. It’s basically a back of the napkin calculation that doesn’t even attempt to justify its figures. It’s absolutely a stupid article that would never pass legitimate peer review, at least not without a lot of work.
Anyone trying to take a moral high ground while supporting Hamas is deluded to the point where discussion is meaningless.
There are a lot of unjust wars with lower death tolls than 200k people..
probably the most obvious prediction in history
