Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
Feminism, the idea that men and women are equal, disagrees with your statement.
Unless of course you think all men are to be believed as well when it comes to sexual assault, in which case I take it back
Feminism does not disagree, literally the opposite.
If you read what I said, "required to go public", it does not mean that they are automatically believed. It means that victims of horrific sexual violence don't need to go in front of the world and recount what happened to them in order to be believed, which is the current bar that is being asked for.
Feminism does not disagree, literally the opposite.
If you read what I said, "required to go public", it does not mean that they are automatically believed. It means that victims of horrific sexual acts don't need to go in front of the world and recount what happened to them in order to be believed, which is the current bar that is being asked for.
nobody says they need to go public. but presumably, they should exist.
or, as Dunyain says, there should be footage of it. after all, Oct 7 was livestreamed.
or there should be some forensic evidence.
compare that with the multiple credible witnesses and victims of Israeli mass rape that have come forward in recent months.
and even throughout the years as these brave women attested. not that it matters to Western chauvinists who will always find ways to disingenuously and hypocritically handwave this.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C-B6lRmNsvP/...
remember that every female hostage that was released spoke of good treatment with one exception which, while bad, did not amount to anything close to the atrocity propaganda used to support this war of extermination.
again, compare that to the treatment of innocent women from Gaza, West Bank, and Israel 48 from BtSelem https://www.btselem.org/publications/202....
Israel is targeting aid workers in Gaza. The aid agencies give their position coordinates in advance to avoid being attacked -- then get missiled. Happened 14 times.
article.
Israel is targeting aid workers in Gaza. The aid agencies give their position coordinates in advance to avoid being attacked -- then get missiled. Happened 14 times.
article.
Feminism does not disagree, literally the opposite.
If you read what I said, "required to go public", it does not mean that they are automatically believed. It means that victims of horrific sexual violence don't need to go in front of the world and recount what happened to them in order to be believed, which is the current bar that is being asked for.
Ok I recant my position. I don’t think we need to be criticizing the women extra hard here.
And we need to make sure we have equal punishment for the mass IDF rapes as well
https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/news/arcci...
Months were spent ITT discrediting women who claimed they experienced or witnessed rape. It sounds like some of them were not being honest, but for others who couldn't be discredited sources like Electronic Intifada concluded something along the lines of "after getting hurt it's possible she just hallucinated it".
I'm pretty sure footage does exist, and if one really wants to piece it together it's out there.
PW: Feminism advocates for believing survivors and supporting them with whatever choice they make regarding speaking out about their trauma and without forcing them to publicize their experiences as proof. Requiring going public with their experience is a way of silencing victims.
Feminism does not disagree, literally the opposite.
If you read what I said, "required to go public", it does not mean that they are automatically believed. It means that victims of horrific sexual violence don't need to go in front of the world and recount what happened to them in order to be believed, which is the current bar that is being asked for.
That’s ****ed
PW: Feminism advocates for believing survivors and supporting them with whatever choice they make regarding speaking out about their trauma and without forcing them to publicize their experiences as proof. Requiring going public with their experience is a way of silencing victims.
Not really. Can you define feminism tho
The entire thing is a great listen, but directly pertaining to these two conversations you two should listen to the section around 50 minutes in:
https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/news/arcci...
Months were spent ITT discrediting women who claimed they experienced or witnessed rape. It sounds like some of them were not being honest, but for others who couldn't be discredited sources like Electronic Intifada concluded something along the lines of "after getting hurt it's possible she just hallucinated it".
I'm prett
EI never said that any women hallucinated being raped.
secondly, no you are wrong once again that any footage has been found. from the Patten report.
PW: Feminism advocates for believing survivors and supporting them with whatever choice they make regarding speaking out about their trauma and without forcing them to publicize their experiences as proof. Requiring going public with their experience is a way of silencing victims.
nobody is saying they need to go forward publicly
Both sides using the "then show the evidence" narrative are pretty far off.
Women should not be required to go public about horrific sexual violence they suffered to be believed. Family should not need to make public the horrific final moments of loved ones to be believed.
Footage of the worst areas suffering from lack of food don't need to be seen to be believed.
In this case we don't need to actually see the gun fired and the corpse to believe what happened.
This is post you quoted to begin this conversation. Read PW's posts. This is literally what we are discussing.
I’m discussing feminism
Anyone requesting the footage.
EI never said that any women hallucinated being raped.
secondly, no you are wrong once again that any footage has been found. from the Patten report.
19:15
Her testimony comes from an individual who describes being shocked and feeling faint which could impair their ability to perceive and recall events accurately.
Secondly, I am saying that it is not mainstream footage.
he is speculating on a person who claimed to witness a rape. not to someone actually being raped.
Months were spent ITT discrediting women who claimed they experienced or witnessed rape. It sounds like some of them were not being honest, but for others who couldn't be discredited sources like Electronic Intifada concluded something along the lines of "after getting hurt it's possible she just hallucinated it".
I'm pretty sure footage does exist, and if one really wants to piece it together it's out there.
bolded
nobody is requesting footage. I am requesting to know if it exists. so far, no one has seen any footage including the UN.
again, no one is asking for women to come forward publicly.
but so far we have no footage, no forensics, and not even anonymous victims. Israel did all they could to promote this hoax and they couldnt even get the UN investigation to confirm it.
meanwhile, Palestinian and Lebanese women and men have been coming forward publicly and privately to human rights orgs for decades describing in great detail the rape and torture done on them and its all just ignored by the supposed defenders of human rights in the West. wonder why.
https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/news/arcci...
Months were spent ITT discrediting women who claimed they experienced or witnessed rape. It sounds like some of them were not being honest, but for others who couldn't be discredited sources like Electronic Intifada concluded something along the lines of "after getting hurt it's possible she just hallucinated it".
I'm prett
EI never said that any women hallucinated being raped.
secondly, no you are wrong once again that any footage has been found. from the Patten report.
bolded
A common tactic of yours is to quote a section, then address 1 part and act as if you have addressed it all. You can see this in the Ukraine thread today. I noted how you do this over a year ago.
If you are trying to pretend that you proved me wrong by bolding the part before the "or" and ignoring the part after it, then you did not disprove it. || is not &&.
If you were just agreeing with me and adding that for clarification then great.
I agree that "go public" does not accurately express what I was trying to convey. Here's a more accurate sentence:
"Victims of sexual violence deserve to be believed and supported without disclosing intimate details about their experiences."
No one should need to show a video to anyone, even the UN, of them suffering something traumatic to be believed. The clip I posted earlier includes a good discussion of this.
A common tactic of yours is to quote a section, then address 1 part and act as if you have addressed it all. You can see this in the Ukraine thread today. I noted how you do this over a year ago.
If you are trying to pretend that you proved me wrong by bolding the part before the "or" and ignoring the part after it, then you did not disprove it. || is not &&.
If you were just agreeing with me and adding that for clarification then great.
you said something incorrect. I corrected you. in the future you can leave out the condition prior to the 'or' in your statement. that way people dont draw the wrong conclusion and misinfo is not spread.
