Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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yeah, they tossing bodies off of buildings in the west bank. living? dead? who knows!
most moral army itw the world or something
unrelated: U.N. Experts Accuse Israel of "Starvation Campaign" in Gaza & Demand End to Western Complicity
UN "expert" lol
Do UN experts use pagers or walkie talkies?
Viktor, Palestinians can't throw people off high rise buildings in Gaza because there are no high rise buildings left
Im the one who made that ironic comment weeks ago Lucium. and tbf I proly heard it from someone else. dont recycle jokes bro.
Oh I don't always read what you wrote my bad
most people dont
normal day from Western media obfuscating war crimes
--I echo the sentiments of this tweet. I never thought much about Israel until 10/7. However, seeing the absolutely deranged antisemetic hatred spewing from the Muslim world and progressive left, and the complete indifference of so called moderate leftists to the hate spewing from their progressive compatriots (as exemplified by many posters in this thread) I now realize the need to support Israel as a homeland for the Jewish people.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/09/19/...
Israel Strikes Lebanon in Wake of Hezbollah Threat to Retaliate, Officials Say
Interesting article on the legal and moral debate of the pager and walkie talkie attacks as well.
yeah i'm sure the nyt's take on the legality and morality of israeli terrorism is ****in fascinating
Sentiment seemed to be that Hez was a serious threat to Israel. Was that overblown or is there real concern for blowback from the recent escalations?
yeah i'm sure the nyt's take on the legality and morality of israeli terrorism is ****in fascinating
Good contribution!
It's also not the "NYT's take".
Sentiment seemed to be that Hez was a serious threat to Israel. Was that overblown or is there real concern for blowback from the recent escalations?
I am pretty sure the majority of the IDF strikes into Lebanon were against Hezbollah rocket launchers. There are a lot, and they could still hurt Israel.
I am currently convinced that Israel would welcome a strike from Hezbollah though.
“Simultaneous targeting of thousands of individuals, whether civilians or members of armed groups, without knowledge of who was in possession of the targeted devices, their location and their surroundings at the time of the attack violates international human rights law,” Mr. Türk said in a statement.
Human Rights Watch questioned the legality of the attacks.
“The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction,” the group said in a statement.
There are other concerns.
There is widespread fear in Lebanon that, beyond pagers and walkie-talkies, other devices may be rigged. Instilling this kind of fear also raises legal questions, some experts said.
“Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited,” Alonso Gurmendi Dunkelberg, a fellow in human rights at the London School of Economics, wrote on social media.
I personally won't be dismissing these arguments as wrong and amoral just because the NYT reported on them.
its not indiscriminate. they are targeted strikes on military infrastructure with hardly any civilian casualties.
“Hamas rejects any idea except liberating the home soil entirely and completely, although it does not necessarily mean we recognise the Zionist entity or give up any of our Palestinian rights.”
--The link provides a summarization of the actual statement that was made in 2017, which is widely interpreted as Hamas willing to commit to a 2 state solution. I included an important quote from the statement. However, there is some serious problems in making this deductive leap from what they actually said.
1. We have no indication this statement was sincere. Nothing in Hamas actions the last 7 years indicates they actually are interested in a Palestinian state.
2. Forming a state without recognizing Israel and declaring willingness to peacefully co-exist with Israel is a complete non starter for Israel, as it should be. Hamas admits they will not recognize Israel, and would just view the formation of a Palestinian state as a step towards achieving their ultimate ends.
3. The West Bank includes relatively high elevation directly overlooking Israel's major coastal population centers. Having a "Palestinian state" with militant groups aiming thousands of rockets at those population centers (which is exactly what Hamas in its current iteration would do) is a complete non starter.
4. Even having a theoretical Palestinian govt dedicated to peace, that has no ability or interest in controlling Iranian (or whoever) sponsored militant groups who are willing and able to attack Israel is a complete non starter, as it should be.
5. I suspect at this point the exact 1967 borders are a complete non starter with Israel. That is just how the world works. You dont get to fight for 80 years, lose 4+ major wars, and then say, "ok, now I will make peace on my terms." In some theoretical peace, the Palestinians are going to have to permanently give up land, especially defensively important land overlooking Israel coastal cities. and/or land with hundreds of thousands of Israeli's living on it already. Maybe there can be some exchange, where Israel can give land that isn't strategically important in return.
---Whatever statement Hamas made in 2017, does not address any of these points. As is, it really is not something in itself that should be taken seriously as an overture towards peace. And I dont think it is good faith or constructive to portray it as such.
