Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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its not indiscriminate. they are targeted strikes on military infrastructure with hardly any civilian casualties.
The majority of Hamas rockets are unguided surface to surface. By definition they are not targeted strikes. However, what happens is that the Iron Dome is implemented to prioritize shooting down rockets that it calculates may land in civilian areas. So the Iron Dome assures there are hardly any civilian causalities from Hamas unguided rockets.
Hamas does have some guided rockets that it was using at the onset of hostilities. However, they have mostly stopped using them, as Israel is quick to destroy the launchers, which are valuable. So they have presumably decided to save them for a more high leverage situation.
So at this point Hamas is relying almost completely on unguided rockets and artillery. And counting the casualties from the soccer field that was bombed, total fatalities on the Israeli side from Hezbollah are 25 military and 27 civilians. So over half deaths are civilian, and this is with Iron Dome doing everything it can to minimize civilian casualties.
So pretty much every part of Victor's statement is not true.
Edit: Many of the IDF military casualties are from targeted drone strikes and close range anti tank missiles; so Hamas unguided rockets and artillery are well over half civilian casualties.
they just killed 22 unit 8200 operatives like a week ago. I guess they just got lucky with some unguided missiles.
they just killed 22 unit 8200 operatives like a week ago. I guess they just got lucky with some unguided missiles.
We have had this discussion many times. It would be extremely difficult for Israel to hide a mass casualty event, because:
1. They would have to completely shield it from the free press, many of which are very antagonistic to the regime, and would not hide news to protect said regime.
2. They would also have to somehow compel friends/family of casualties to not speak to media/social media about it.
3. Israel practices elaborate funeral rituals that would be impossible to hide.
But you remain perpetually unconvinced, and assume Israel has been hiding massive military casualties over the last 11 months, so here we are.
It is also far easier to tell if Hezbollah is targeting civilians or military since Israel has their military and civilian targets separated and distinctly marked.
“Hamas rejects any idea except liberating the home soil entirely and completely, although it does not necessarily mean we recognise the Zionist entity or give up any of our Palestinian rights.”
--The link provides a summarization of the actual statement that was made in 2017, which is widely interpreted as Hamas willing to commit to a 2 state solution. I included an important quote from the statement. How
Point 2, that's why you speak and have negotiations. All the rest is probably just a lot of typing you wasted as I'm not seeing Israel accepting full 67 borders as even a starting point.
It's a dire situation
Point 2, that's why you speak and have negotiations. All the rest is probably just a lot of typing you wasted as I'm not seeing Israel accepting full 67 borders as even a starting point.
It's a dire situation
FWIW Saudi Arabia said normalization would be contingent on a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as the capital, but did not make the 1967 borders a hard line. I think in a best case scenario an Israeli regime would give up other land in return for parts of the West Bank it insists on keeping.
But neither Netanyahu or Hamas wants this to happen; so they would both have to be far in the rear view for this scenario to happen. Obviously Netanyahu's political (and actual) life has a shelf life; so there is hope from the Israel side for peace in a post Netanyahu world. On the other side, the picture is extremely bleak; with no path towards getting rid of Hamas, and other non state violent actors, who would derail any theoretical peace plan.
Regardless: The point is Hamas making a "concession" to agree to terms that are a complete non starter should not be regarded as a serious overture towards peace. And even this would require a giant leap of faith they would abide by said terms.
Not exactly to your point, as I am not entirely sure what it actually is, but... non sequitur or not, the way that Ireland has sided with Hamas is most interesting. They see their fight for democratic freedom against England as "the same thing" as Hamas's fight for a radical Islamic dictatorship.
Not exactly to your point, as I am not entirely sure what it actually is, but... non sequitur or not, the way that Ireland has sided with Hamas is most interesting. They see their fight for democratic freedom against England as "the same thing" as Hamas's fight for a radical Islamic dictatorship.
Show us where Ireland has sided with Hamas,
Your use of England instead of the correct state is a good indication you have nfi what you’re talking about,
We have had this discussion many times. It would be extremely difficult for Israel to hide a mass casualty event, because:
1. They would have to completely shield it from the free press, many of which are very antagonistic to the regime, and would not hide news to protect said regime.
2. They would also have to somehow compel friends/family of casualties to not speak to media/social media about it.
3. Israel practices elaborate funeral rituals that would be impossible to hide.
But you remain per
this event made the press. I posted about it.
and yes, they do hide casualties as the Haaretz report from December showed.
a lot of this stuff does make the Israeli press which is far more informative than Western outlets. they dont need to hide as much since the country is fully committed to this war of conquest and extermination.
This is why we must side with Israel. It is good to have a liberal country where protests are allowed. The last thing we should do is support Islamists who want to destroy Israel and create authoritarian societies in its place.
Israel says 100 Hezbollah rocket launchers hit in Lebanon
“Our goal is to ensure the safe return of Israel’s northern communities to their homes. As time goes by, Hezbollah will pay an increasing price.”
It is not clear how Israel intends to achieve this goal. But reports earlier this week suggested that the general in charge of the IDF’s Northern Command favoured the creation of an Israeli-controlled buffer zone inside southern Lebanon.
I hate being right all the time
I remember when most of the pro-Israel people argued vociferously there would be no "occupation" and stealing of land in Gaza.
This proves my point most of the claims of "IDF atrocities" are mostly just bullshit. Everyone has a camera and is filming non stop, and the worst thing they could come up with is in the middle of a battle some soldiers pushing already dead bodies off a rooftop. What a complete nothing burger.
Israel strike targeted top Hezbollah commander, reports saypublished at 15:06 British Summer Time
15:06 BST
The target of Israel's strike in Beirut on Friday was Hezbollah's operations commander Ibrahim Aqil, according to a report by Israeli Army Radio, citing an unnamed security source, according to Reuters.
The AFP news agency also quotes a source close to Hezbollah that said that Aqil, the Iran-backed group's second-in-command, had been killed in the strike.
The BBC has not yet been able to confirm if Aqil was killed.
Seems like now is as good a time as any for Hezbollah to stop attacking Israel and retreat behind the Litani River, as promised in 2007.
I think Israel has been running +EV (at least since October 8th, obviously October 7th was a -EV disaster) and would expect Hezbollah will eventually be able to get rockets through and do real damage. But despite Hezbollah's impressive arsenal, it does seem they have a tactical problem that Israel controls the field of battle to the point Hezbollah cant get their rockets off before the launchers are destroyed.
It seems they can get single rockets off that Iron Dome will most likely intercept. But they dont have enough control over the field of battle to coordinate a mass attack to overwhelm Iron Dome.
I'm not sure if they mention it because I can never figure out their live feed, but I think he was responsible for this:
I wonder how many millions are going to be paid out in bounties when all of this down.
The senior Israeli official said that Israel came to the conclusion that it would not be possible to settle the situation on the northern border without going through an escalation and therefore decided to proactively increase the attacks "and slowly take off the gloves" against Hezbollah
This proves my point most of the claims of "IDF atrocities" are mostly just bullshit. Everyone has a camera and is filming non stop, and the worst thing they could come up with is in the middle of a battle some soldiers pushing already dead bodies off a rooftop. What a complete nothing burger.
In a country that isn't being attacked several people walking around on a roof with a body would result in them getting filmed. There are no explosions or gunfire happening in this video, making it far easier and more realistic for someone to record.
This proves my point most of the claims of "IDF atrocities" are mostly just bullshit. Everyone has a camera and is filming non stop, and the worst thing they could come up with is in the middle of a battle some soldiers pushing already dead bodies off a rooftop. What a complete nothing burger.
I presume this sort of skepticism does not extend to the fantastical atrocity propaganda disseminated about Oct 7th.
5 children killed today so far in Lebanon.
