Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Seems a good reason to give back the hostages and stop attacking Israel.
Iran and its proxies want things to quiet down into a slow burn; but fundamentally they want to maintain the status quo where they surround Israel, isolate them, and attack them whenever Israel gets out of line. That is not acceptable to the current Israel administration. As they see it, peace will come when the armies parked on Israel's borders are completely dismantled or annihilated. And frankly it is absurd that demanding control of your own borders is being framed as "provoking Iran."
What was referred to as provoking Iran was assassinating someone in Iran.
Also, in respect to the bolded, all I can say is LOL. Israel is reporting the highest Qud commander was in Beirut personally overseeing Hezbollah's efforts, and may have been killed in the last day. If anything, the IRGC seems to be taking control of Hezbollah's war efforts, and getting a lot of their officers killed in the process. Iran is certainly not done with Hezbollah; and I am skeptical Hamas either.
When I said they were done with Hamas and Hezbollah, I meant as far as these immediate conflicts go. Iran declared Hezbollah a winner, and tried to distance themselves politically. It is not clear that Iran is even able to provide anything meaningful at the moment. The missile attack was in response to the assassination, not in order to help Hamas or Hezbollah in any meaningful way.
The conflicts with Hezbollah and Hamas do not revolve around extremely expensive AD which are in limited supply and was what began this discussion. If Israel cannot afford to fire those then they can stop assassinating people which force Iran to respond, especially when the person assassinated drastically sets back any peace options.
What Iran seems to have signaled, is that it wont respond directly to what happens in Gaza or Beirut, as long as Iran itself is not attacked, but they certainly are not washing their hands as far as supporting either war effort. However, IF their top general was killed in Beirut, we will see how true this is, as they will be pressured to retaliate to save face.
Also, I am sure you are aware of this; but Hezbollah is just as important to Iran's imperial projects in Syria as it is in Lebanon; and whatever happens in Lebanon, Hezbollah will continue to operate closely with Iran there.
Agreed. As you note, if Israel killed another senior member of Iran then Iran will respond. Trying to frame that as being entire the responsibility of Iran does not accurately look at what is happening here. Israel can stop Iran's missile attacks very easily. Israel knowingly took an action which would result in the last missile attack, and they might have knowingly taken that action again.
Agreed. As you note, if Israel killed another senior member of Iran then Iran will respond. Trying to frame that as being entire the responsibility of Iran does not accurately look at what is happening here. Israel can stop Iran's missile attacks very easily. Israel knowingly took an action which would result in the last missile attack, and they might have knowingly taken that action again.
It isn't obvious Israel even knew he was there; although it might not have mattered either way. The IRGC is so active in Beirut right now, it doesn't seem like Israel can hit a bunker without killing an IRGC commander.
over 10 raids of bunker buster bombs in Beirut and just mass liquidation in the Gaza. every day I read and see the most horrifying things and every day I see people justifying or celebrating it.
I don't think your avg person in 2024, or at least prior to now, really understands how many awful things take place in a war like this or the wars that have took place in the past. And I also extend that to areas like to police corruption in regard to areas like civil forfeiture and planting incriminating evidence. I've come to the safe conclusion that human beings are just a lot worse than we give ourselves credit fer especially when we are given the legal opportunity to these things. But I guess at least for now we got twitter and body cams to help shine some light on it.
Personally I'm pretty confident, and I honestly think you would as well, that if Hamas had the military capability to wipe out whomever they wanted, they wouldn't bat an eye to kill millions and just like Israel, under their current admin, would most likely eviscerate half the ME if they knew they could get away with it. There is a level of hate between these two that most people just can't comprehend.
Things are very likely to get a lot worse and it always seems to start with one specific attack somewhere that snowballs from an overreaction to a disaster.
also, they offered this very thing on like Oct 9th.
they offered the hostages for nothing. the soldiers they wanted to exchange. this was widely reported in Israeli media and I linked it many times.
Btw just to refute some very bad information in here earlier:
-Israel is short on weapons
-Israel is short on man power (and is trying to get the ultra-orthodox to serve to fix it)
-the economy is getting battered
-Moody's axed Israeli credit
So you're damn right Israel is trying to end this fast, and hard. Anyone who understands how the IDF has ever fought a war, knows it is not designed to fight 1-2-3 years straight. And the IDF has not hidden this from anyone. They need to win fast, decisive wars when they are dragged into them. Or Israel will eventually be no more.
Nonsense. I doubt you know any Iranian under 50. I have friends who can’t go back because of their participation in protests against the regime while living abroad. Guess what, they also think the U.S. and Israel are no allies to the Iranian people.
You can just make up whatever racist crap you like about Iranians or Lebanese or Gazans here. they're all bloodthirsty rapacious savages or whatever. Imagine if I said this crap about any other ethnic group, I'd be insta-banned. I've known several Iranians, they're decent people, by and large.
I mean, its hard to ban the viewpoints of the Western media establishment and current the Democratic president and both presidential nominees. what gets me is that we cant really criticize people making these points without getting dinged ourselves.
Wait, Trolly are you denying the realities of the Iranian regime?
I'm happy to link you to a beautiful podcast by two Iranian women (who escaped) who now spearhead causes around freeing those still back in Iran. It's a wonderful podcast.
Iranian people are lovely. I have so many Iranian friends. But that regime? Brutal.
Such a weird coincidence. We're watching Shark Tank this morning and this plays
8:50 mark, is the story of the entrepreneur living in Iran. At age 12, because one lock of her hair is showing, the morality police take her. Her mother then saved her life, by begging for it (and they fled).
This is STILL happening. That, is Iran.
Wait, Trolly are you denying the realities of the Iranian regime?
I'm happy to link you to a beautiful podcast by two Iranian women (who escaped) who now spearhead causes around freeing those still back in Iran. It's a wonderful podcast.
Iranian people are lovely. I have so many Iranian friends. But that regime? Brutal.
Raffi, re-read what I posted very carefully. Take your time. Was I talking about the Iranian *people* or the Iranian *regime*? Again, read carefully; there's a big hint in the last sentence.
Raffi, re-read what I posted very carefully. Take your time. Was I talking about the Iranian *people* or the Iranian *regime*? Again, read carefully; there's a big hint in the last sentence.
Trolly, then it's you who didn't read HIS post carefully. Read his. He's talking about the regime.
Trolly, then it's you who didn't read HIS post carefully. Read his. He's talking about the regime.
The correct answer was: Trolly was talking about the Iranian *people* and not the Iranian regieme.
Now please stop trolling me and misrepresenting my posts and try to engage with what I'm actually saying.
his remains ended up in shoe box, theres videos. not that it really matters.
General's Plan in full effect and annexation of a large portion of Gaza will be complete in the upcoming months. I wonder if the pro-Israel people who swore up and down that there would be no annexation will admit they were wrong.
they are going to kill some UN troops bc why not? who is going to stop them? and besides, as we have been told many times in this thread from liberals, the UN is antisemitic. and these troops are Irish which makes them considered to be doubly antisemitic by many pro-Israel people..
looks like Hezbollah is not finally aiming at civilians.
his remains ended up in shoe box, theres videos. not that it really matters.
General's Plan in full effect and annexation of a large portion of Gaza will be complete in the upcoming months. I wonder if the pro-Israel people who swore up and down that there would be no annexation will admit they were wrong.
These journalists should stop spreading lies.
they offered the civilian hostages back for nothing in return.
they wanted to negotiate a prisoner exchange for the captives from the army. this was reported in Israeli media extensively and the lead hostage liason eventually came public with it.
Hamas and Palestinian sources alleged this from Oct. but it wasnt until like Apr that it was corroborated by Israeli media. (and we all know that Palestinian sources are not reliable and must be disregarded. see the post right above this by mongodig who agrees with the IDF that the poor kid doing a modern day diary of genocide was "spreading lies" and deserved to end up in shoe box. or notably the multitude of stories about torture camps and rape that survivors described since November which were never taken seriously until CNN and Haaretz documented them in like April. but I digress.)
Ive posted it many times in this thread.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-n...
Israel has already eliminated the back up to Nasralla and now the back up to the back up.
Israel is trolling the world right now.
and yet multiple cities just got bombed.
