Moderation Questions

no jfc, I am a Milei fan but the "far right" label gets used from everything from Milei to Putin

Pretty much this

For all of BJ’s or PB’s or *insert over the top trumper*’s nonsense at the very least they can be explained away by simps who just wanna lol at the libs cuz maga

Luciom is seriously hardcore over the top fascist bullshit at super high volume

I agree both are terrible, but luciom is emphatically worse

Lucio derangement syndrome runs strong itt.

I want 0 welfare ideally, Mussolini built the Italian welfare system.

I want no vaccine mandates, Mussolini introduced the most important ones in Italy.

I want to exclude the state from education if possible, Mussolini built the Italian public education system.

I want no state ownership of productive assets, Mussolini nationalized most major banks, shipyards, steelmakers, energy companies

I am ultra pro Jews, Mussolini passed "racial laws" against them

I despise Italy as a polity (I would very much prefer the country to be divided in several parts), Mussolini made the "integrity of the nation" one of his pillars.

I mean I am literally against all Mussolini policies, yet your LDS afflicted people keep calling me a fascist because I do agree with some right-wing policies that are normal in all actually right-wing governed countries.

No, we call you a fascist because of your preferred methods of dealing with your political opponents. We call you a disgusting pathetic piece of **** because of how you feel minorities or people beneath you should be treated.

Beyond that, no one really cares about your existence to be afflicted with any type of trump-mimicking syndrome

if only he realized the more effective way to deal with them.

What is your point then? You self-identify as far right. You hardly can object when others use the same descriptor for you.

no, I don't, I can identify fairly well with a current politician that is called far right by many (Milei) while being very close to the opposite of others that are... anyway called far right by many. like probably the most insane is Le Pen being called far right (among democracies) if Milei is.

They are further away than Trump and Harris were.

that's because "far right" is a made up label with simply negative connotation that captures everyone who strongly opposes at least one tenet of leftism.

I do identify far right on some specific topics especially in Europe (welfare cuts for ex) and not on many others (immigration where I am like in the middle of Europeans, with something like 30%+ of voters wanting more restrictions than me).

especially when a lot of my positions were median voter ones (at least in the USA) not too many generations ago.

but anyway, the demented approach is when I get called a fascist which is opposite to the vast majority of my policy preferences. but again for detractors it's enough to have one thing in common with fascism for them to be able to call you fascist. nevermind if they objectively have more in common with fascism than I ever did (like the love for the welfare state).

I'm not getting the Luciom hate in here. I haven't read all of his posts but a lot of it makes sense to me. People have called me MAGA and I'm really not actually. I liked Trump in 2016 then I hated him during the Pandemic and Jan 6th but now I like him again because I think he is doing a great job. Do liberals just automatically label their detractors MAGA or far right. It's scary how people can't express their opinion without a liberal losing his ****.

What are his faults exactly? I'm truly curious. I hope it's not just because he has different opinions than you do.

Even though we all have different opinions than each other, we all hate Luciom because he has a different opinion than us. It's something that is wrong with everyone else. Luciom is completely innocent.

luciom acknowledges personal bias and preference that is easily verified by data when you're looking at aggregates of large numbers

many people also acknowledge this same stuff internally but are afraid of sounding racist so whenever luc says something such as "asians are more likely to be more supportive of collectivism" they scream far and loud "omg you racist"

No, as usual you've completely missed the point (and that's being generous). Luciom is a fascist because he wants to kill vast numbers of people who don't agree with his preferred state or who protest against the government.

That he has some quibbles with the political policies of Hitler and Mussolini is irrelevant; Luciom represents the people who your fellow Americans died fighting against 80 years ago. That's very unpatriotic of you.

The USA is a country founded in the repeated, chirurgical genocide of natives (hundreds of tribes across more than a century, not occasional events). according to some it is also founded on the enslavement of millions of Africans (I disagree that was necessary for the USA to exist and flourish, but I don't deny it happened).

mass terrific violence to achieve it's goals with only "might is right" as the only moral rule is the most American thing there is, and that predates fascism.

it is also according to some studies the country that quashed workers strike with more violence of all those in what is now the first world back in the day.

it also ofc had domestically what was at the time the bloodiest war in the history of humankind just to settle some differences between north and south.

a profound willingness to never remove unlimited violence from the options on the table against enemies foreign and domestic (and the realization that the more powerful you are the more the worst enemies are going to be domestic) is the most distinct American trait.

As Lincoln and others, I ask for the option to be one of last resort and for the rule of law to sanctify and allow it, not for extralegal violence as the left always does historically.

and that isn't fascism

But i understand you are british jal so i'll use british examples.

Massive use of the death penalty for violent crimes (and exile of many others thousands of miles away) has been a staple of british society for centuries and arguably the main reason the UK didn't face very violent revolutions with industrialization on par of many others on the continent.

It was called the "bloody code", and it happened in what for many centuries has been considered and defined the most civilized country in world history (up to that moment in time).

Yet proposing something similar refreshed for 2025 is "fascism" for you.

Death penalty abolished in the 1960s, 60 years ago. We've come a long way since then - well some of us have, Luciom.

Well you know there is a word to describe people who ask for policies that were abandoned a long while ago? and it isn't fascism.

You can very well call me a extremist reactionary *for some policies* and i would fully accept it (because it's true). To be vehemently anti-progressive isn't fascism.

Fascism was actually ultra-progressive on many things. It covered the national narrative in "traditionalism" while implementing a lot of stuff no one had tried before. That's quite the literal opposite of being a reactionary.

I mean Mussolini voided the King of any actual power (more than the constitutional republic did before him). How is that conservative or reactionary lol. That's the dream progressive outcome!

I get it you despise my politics because they run counter many of yours. But they do because i want to dismantle a lot of what "progressivism" achieved, not because "fascism".

No, I despise your politics because they are horrendous: as you admit yourself they necessarily mean the state murdering many people.

So, in conclusion, I hope my explanation followed by him showing up to not only not deny it, but defend it while just saying we aren't calling it by the correct name, has absolved you of the notion that it is somehow our fault we despise him.

Just to make sure you didn't miss it, he tried to defend the mass killing of his political enemies by referencing the fact that it has happened before.

I hope that demonstration helped.

Just curious though, now that you've seen the reality, how do you feel about him? You good with it? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion?

Ok, still mass use of the death penalty legally isn't fascism at all. Fascism actually didn't even use the death penalty very much (unlike nazism).

There wasn't even the DP until 1931, and only 118 people till 1940 got it (then martial law kicked in), with only 65 actually executed.

then ofc there were extrajudicial assassinations by "squadrists" , maybe some hundreds in total, which again are fully against what i ask for.

My point isn't convincing you "i am right", it's impossible to convince people of values and preferences. My point is to clarify to you (and others) my model has nothing to do with fascism. You can hate it all the same.

I want a legal system where all "career" violent criminals are executed. where it never happens that an heinous crime has been committed by "someone known to law enforcement", because if you are "known to law enforcement" in the sense of being a tangible high risk because of what you have already done, you are not going to be part of society ever again.

The vast majority of violent crimes are committd by a minuscule percentage of the population. Almost all by young, under-educated adult men, and among them, you have pareto proportions again and again.

Executing the 4% of the most violent criminals reduces violent crimes by 60-65%, and that's with ZERO deterrence effect, just by removing them from society.

lol at the bold

Dishonest again.

In more candid moments you've talked about killing people who don't abide by the values of the society they live in if deportation isn't possible. In other words, murdering people for thought crimes. These are the "policies" you want to "debate" here that you're worried will get you banned.

You are confusing the topic of foreigners, and naturalized citizens.

Ofc my model doesn't grant quite the same rights to aliens than it does to citizens, and it defines citizens far more strictly than the american constitution. But until that changes legally , that's the law.

Bolded has no application to Luciom. He doesn't want to be known as a fascist because he views fascism, especially in Italy, as too collectivist for his taste. But far right? He's fine with that label. He applies it to himself.

Again, I would have a lot more sympathy for your desire to be very precise about the historical definition of fascism if you didn't use "Marxist" as an all purpose pejorative. It's all gestalt for you when discussing Marxism. A person doesn't have to adhere at all closely to the nuances of Marxism in order earn the label. But we have to be very precise when using the term fascism because you don't like to be labelled improperly.

And, of course, no one has ever claimed the love for the welfare state. That’s just luciom making **** up.