LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

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Goat standard at 40 years old - 43 of 89 points against the #1 defense and East champs in the toughest defensive format ever, where competitive-minded players were eager to finally have a chance against the old lion

Fake standard at 40 years old - 40 of 120 points and 11 turnovers against a bottom-dweller in a hands-off, wide-open format that allows 20 more ppg, while the league's design around a single colluder disincentives opponents from winning or going hard (since it won't get covered and they won't be praised for it)

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Lebron was carried to the 5 seed in 2025 Regular Season:

AD.................. 25.7 ppg... 27.1 PER... 0.210 WS/48
Lebron'.......... 24.7 ppg... 23.4 PER... 0.152 WS/48


Lebron was carried in the 2020 Western Playoffs:

AD.................. 28.8 ppg
Lebron''......... 26.7 ppg


Lebron was carried in the 2016 Playoffs:

Lebron''......... 26.2 ppg
Kyrie.............. 25.3 ppg


Lebron was carried in the 2011 Playoffs:

Wade''............ 24.5 ppg
Lebron........... 23.7 ppg

Role players can get a lot of rebounds or assists, but only stars can score a lot, so scoring help is the "star" help and MJ didn't need it, while everyone else did.. Everyone in history needed teammates to lead in scoring for entire playoff runs, while MJ led Pippen by 10-30 ppg in every SERIES.. MJ also averaged 5 more points than everyone in playoff history, except 3 ppg above Iverson and Doncic.

MJ also averaged more assists than Pippen for their Finals career, playoff career and RS career, while getting equal or more DPOY votes for 7 of 9 seasons... If elite assists and playmaking were needed, MJ was the only option, so he was the floor general, defensive leader, and carried the biggest scoring burden of all-time, by far.

You got a Guy like Shaq with great teams ( got swept like 5 Times ! ) and had one of the greatest second option ever (Kobe) …..only 4 rings and less mvp then Lebron but hey , shaq deserve top 10…..

Smh

Shaq achieved the pinnacle with his help that included a dynasty (3-peat) and 2 dominant champions (01', 02'), while Lebron had just as much help but never achieved a dynasty or dominant champion (the best basketball)..

History shows that ball-dominators like Lebron can't produce the best basketball as 1st option regardless of cast (0 for 12) because they turn everyone into spot-up shooter, which prevents elite roster construction.. This is the statistical and historical record.

The goat standard at 40 years old is 43 of 89 points against the #1 defense in a defensive format that allowed 20 less ppg... But regardless, now that Lebron has Luka to match Jokic, the Nuggets should be an automatic W tomorrow night and thereafter, correct?

And the Lakers should have an automatic dynasty, just like we would see with Curry, MJ, or Duncan, since they produced dynasties with lesser players than Luka, correct?

And if Denver is still somehow a problem and Lebron/Luka don't have a dynasty, then doesn't that mean that Lebron is inferior since he lacks the skills to fit with guys and win with greater help than his peers??

Finally, didn't 1 for 6 with AD prove this already? Don't 50+ guys do equal or better with AD than Lebron did, which proves Lebron is a fraud?.. Didn't the catastrophic embarrassments with Wade/Bosh or failing to win 60 with Kyrie/Love already prove this?.. 22 years has proven that Lebron is incapable of a dynasty due to a ball-dominant skillset that turns teammates into spot-up shooter, thereby preventing elite roster construction and chemistry.

Double standard .
Shaq did not play only 2 years ….
Shaq massively underperform many times with good/great teams buddy but you don’t take shaq accountability like u do with LeBron -> shame .

And who Shaq dominated btw once all the great center left or were way beyond past their prime ?

And still LeBron accomplished more !

Shame do you .
U are just pure hate !

Despite a million different coaches, casts, and every type of star teammate, Lebron never achieved the top caliber of anything, such as 3-peat, dynasty, 70 wins, or MVP quality, while Shaq achieved all of them, except 70 wins.

And MVP quality means that half of Lebron's MVP's don't include the title (09' and 10'), while none of them include scoring title... Otoh, Shaq achieved the best type of MVP one time that included MVP/FMVP/all-defense/scoring title (similar to 4 of 5 MVP's for MJ, and MJ's other MVP included DPOY).. Again, all of Lebron's MVP's were lacking something major, such as winning the title and scoring title.

It's amazing that people praise less-than top caliber for Lebron, such as a reporter the other day referred to Lebrons' 4-0 sweep loss in the 2023 WCF like it was a title and part of the goat case.. This is an egregious example of the lesser-than-goat caliber that Lebron gets praised for.. Of course we know why Lebron cannot achieve the top caliber of anything - it's because his skillset foments weak chemistry and spot-up roles for teammates, thereby preventing elite roster construction and teammate performance.

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MVP AND TITLE

Jordan............ 4
Russell........... 4
Bird................ 2
Kareem.......... 2
Lebron........... 2
Wilt................ 1
Kareem.......... 1
Duncan.......... 1
Shaq............... 1
Jokic............... 1
Magic............. 1
Hakeem......... 1
Moses.............1
Reed............... 1
Cousy............. 1

Half of Lebron's MVP's lacked titles and all lacked scoring titles, so Lebron failed to reach the top caliber of anything, such as MVP quality, 3-peat, dynasty, or 70 wins, and he isn't arguably "the best" in any category, such as scoring, rebounding, assists, steals or blocks.. Meanwhile, the goat peaks like Kareem in 71', Shaq in 00', or 4 of Jordan's MVP's included everything, such as MVP/FMVP/All-Defense/Scoring Title.

Of course we know why Lebron cannot achieve the top caliber of anything - it's because his skillset foments weak chemistry and spot-up roles for teammates, thereby preventing elite roster construction, chemistry/teammate performance and teams.

Unfortunately, people still praise lesser caliber from Lebron as if it's the best ever, such as a reporter referring to Lebrons' 4-0 sweep loss in the 23' WCF like it was a title and part of the goat case.. This is a standard example of the lesser caliber that Lebron gets praised for and it's why he's among the most overrated players ever - a purported goat whose skillset produces spot-up roles for teammates, bad chemistry, and perennial losers with every cast.

Yes I can agree Lebron is a top 10 player OAT

So, been away for 2 weeks. Quick scan through the thread and the latest appears to be 50-100 players could have led the Cavs to a better than 1-3 record against the Warriors.

A better than 1-3 would mean, at worst, 2-2.

Against the GOAT team (at worst 2nd GOAT team) for 2 of those years.

And a team that averaged 70 wins in the other 2 seasons.

And FG thinks that... checks notes...

This guy could do it...

This guy could do it...

This guy could do it...

This guy could do it...

This guy could do it...

Seems about right.