Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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I'm not familiar with the details of the 2021 ceasefire. Did it include Israel could detain Palestinians indefinitely with no charges and carry out targeted killings? Because that was happening between May of 21 and Oct 6th 2023.
The other questions are for Victor as he seems to be the most vocal supporter of the resistance.
And the entire time Hamas (and numerous other militant groups) was periodically firing rockets into Israel. If you feel Hamas is justified in breaking any "ceasefire" whenever they want because of Israeli actions that is fine. But you said you believe Hamas would abide by any "temporary ceasefire" out of some sense of honor; which is completely ludicrous and not supported by their own historical words or actions at all.
And Egypt maintaining hundreds of smuggling tunnels for decades that were used to militarize Gaza was breaking International laws and treaties. And Hamas militarizing Gaza for the last 20 years, and firing tens of thousands of rockets into Israel during this time from urban civilian areas is breaking international laws and treaties.
Like I said, Israel accepts that any treaty it signs with any of its neighbors will be broken before the ink is dry. In that part of the world international laws and treaties are made to be immediately broken and this is understood by all parties.
So being outraged anytime Israel breaks a law/treaty and agnostic towards the permanent state of breaking laws/treaties from the other side is just bad faith partisan behavior IMO. And should be treated as such.
Hamas is not breaking any treaties. and it is legal to engage in armed resistance against an occupying state.
I think you are going to need to show some proof that Egypt is maintaining any tunnels.
True, but if you see this in the context of what we're constantly told about the IDF being "the most moral army in the world" you realise how good the propaganda is.
never heard of an army dressing up so much in the clothes of the females they displaced and killed and tormented. but maybe if we had tiktok during other wars it would be similar.
You both inherently know the truth in what I said above. Men know the nature of other men, even though they deny it. Let’s just be careful with attributing generalized behaviors to nationalities.
I do think it’s absurd and offensive to suggest Israeli military men are some special form of perverts when their behavior is in no way distinct to them.
No one's suggesting that. What people itt are suggesting, continually and repetitively is a narrative spun around "the brave boys and girls of the IDF". Note the use of "boys and girls" instead of "men and women" to imply some sort of innocence on the IDF's part. That along with the "most moral army in the world" deserves to be debunked imo.
IDF had no choice, there are Hamas tunnels underneath the underwear drawer. Israel has the right to do this.
I do think it’s absurd and offensive to suggest Israeli military men are some special form of perverts when their behavior is in no way distinct to them.
but really what it shows is the deep dehumanization of the Palestinians and the lack of discipline in the Israeli Army given the voluminous documentation.
No one's suggesting that. What people itt are suggesting, continually and repetitively is a narrative spun around "the brave boys and girls of the IDF". Note the use of "boys and girls" instead of "men and women" to imply some sort of innocence on the IDF's part. That along with the "most moral army in the world" deserves to be debunked imo.
Ethnically biased talking points don’t debunk anything; it’s just engaging in the same debate tactics of which you claim to be critical. Anyway, I hope you think on it.
but really what it shows is the deep dehumanization of the Palestinians and the lack of discipline in the Israeli Army given the voluminous documentation.
There are larger lenses through which to view the same information that provide more clarity and are less myopic than the above. The world does not operate under only one system, but many many systems that overlap in power structure.
I am thinking on it and always try to make sure there's no ethnic element to anything I post. I'm careful with the terminology I use and don't even like saying "the Jews" because it has really unpleasant historical echoes, and instead type the extra words "the Jewish people", which is a length many here don't go to.
But posting things about the IDF - I mean, it's an army not an ethnicity.
I am thinking on it and always try to make sure there's no ethnic element to anything I post. I'm careful with the terminology I use and don't even like saying "the Jews" because it has really unpleasant historical echoes, and instead type the extra words "the Jewish people", which is a length many here don't go to.
But posting things about the IDF - I mean, it's an army not an ethnicity.
It’s my personal opinion that the tweet you posted could be viewed as an antisemitic dog whistle, as is the entire underwear issue. It’s giving “look at these pervy Jews”.
As I said before, that behavior is neither specific to a nationality nor is it a “phenomenon”.
What I suspect this is about, again, is some people objecting to seeing the outcomes of actions performed by their beloved IDF. In other words, demanding censorship of news that they find embarrassing or disturbing.
What I suspect this is about, again, is some people objecting to seeing the outcomes of actions performed by their beloved IDF. In other words, demanding censorship of news that they find embarrassing or disturbing.
That would be a bad assumption, at least regarding my comments on the subject. I don’t care for any militaries and I’m long past the age where I am embarrassed or disturbed by the behaviors of adult men. And I haven’t censored you; I’ve just told you that you’re wrong.
Well I clearly (I thought) wasn't referring to you CN.
It’s my personal opinion that the tweet you posted could be viewed as an antisemitic dog whistle, as is the entire underwear issue. It’s giving “look at these pervy Jews”.
As I said before, that behavior is neither specific to a nationality nor is it a “phenomenon”.
that particular twitter account is a Bellingcat reporter who has been documenting Israeli war crimes since the start of the invasion. he reads their social media feeds and posts his findings.
this is part of a larger pattern of IDF soldiers dressing up in womens clothing and underwear that seems to be ubiquitous on these accounts.
heres an article he wrote for Mehdi Hasan's outlet. (note I am no fan of Mehdi but he is mainstream and respected)
heres another article, that mentions some of this.
if its antisemitic* (in the old way) to expose and criticize this stuff then well, I disagree. and thats all I will say on this subject.
*ofc by the new meaning it is antisemitism necessarily bc it criticizes Israel
so sexism is ok now? wild
is it antisemitic to say that "final solution" is bad? plz advise
And the entire time Hamas (and numerous other militant groups) was periodically firing rockets into Israel. If you feel Hamas is justified in breaking any "ceasefire" whenever they want because of Israeli actions that is fine. But you said you believe Hamas would abide by any "temporary ceasefire" out of some sense of honor; which is completely ludicrous and not supported by their own historical words or actions at all.
Google rocket attacks on Israel 2022
The underwear posts are ridiculous to the point that basically everyone just ignored them. You can’t get offended by someone holding underwear and at the same time be a hardcore rape denialist.
It’s my personal opinion that the tweet you posted could be viewed as an antisemitic dog whistle, as is the entire underwear issue. It’s giving “look at these pervy Jews”.
As I said before, that behavior is neither specific to a nationality nor is it a “phenomenon”.
It sounds like you are saying that news of Israeli bad behavior should not be circulated.
