Introduction to Small Stakes No-Limit Hold ’em: Help Them Give You Their Money

Introduction to Small Stakes No-Limit Hold ’em: Help Them Give You Their Money

Hi Everyone:

Here's part of the Introduction to or upcoming book Small Stakes No-Limit Hold ’em: Help Them Give You Their Money. We expect to have the printed book up on Amazon in less than a month:

Introduction

Let’s start this book off with a few examples. These are just a few of the many types of hands which for the live small stakes games, usually $2-$5 or less, that we play differently from the way almost all other players in these games will play them, and is also different from much of the standard advice that is out there. So why do we do this?

The answer is simple. Against poor playing opponents, the best strategy for maximizing your win rate is to exploit these players as much as possible, sometimes with plays that look extreme. Especially to an “expert” player who often relies on Game Theory Optimal (GTO) to model his strategy.

Now, we understand that those who usually play GTO will, when appropriate, exploit their opponents. They do so when they see an opponent playing very badly which will make them make changes to their standard strategy. But they usually do this only in very obvious cases.

But that’s not the way we play these small stakes games. In these games, assuming the game is eight or nine-handed, it’s common to be against four ot more terrible players, and even most of the remaining players, who are usually semi-competent, will still make some significant errors, especially late in the hand when the big bets are in play.

If you were to go into a higher stakes (live) game, usually $5-$10 and up, where there are many strong players, and do many of the things that we’ll be recommending, your results will probably be disappointing. But if you stick to a game like $1-$3 no-limit hold ’em where the maximum buy-in is usually 100 to 200 big blinds, and follow the advice that is contained in this book, we suspect that you’ll be quite surprised and pleased with your results.

Our approach is not looking to make lots of great plays where you may steal a pot or knock a player out who, if he had stayed in, might have beaten you on a later street. We’re also not interested in constantly balancing our strategy and putting our opponent(s) at an “indifference point.” The experts can worry about that stuff, and if that’s your approach, play the higher stakes or perhaps limit hold ’em where recognizing small edges is highly important. But if you simply want to let your opponents give you their money, we’ll show you how to do it.

A Few Examples

(Again, these examples show you only a small number of the many ideas we will soon tell you about.) To see what we’re talking about, here are five examples. Notice that in every one of these hands, we’re playing differently, and sometimes very differently, from the way most poker instructors, coaches, book authors, poker video content producers, etc., will tell you how to play. It's true that, in general, their advice may be reasonably good, especially against tougher players than those we’ll be addressing. But it won’t be well targeted for these small stakes games. And if you’re playing live, these are the vast majority of games that are spread in our public cardrooms.

Example No. 1: Here’s a hand that David played in a Las Vegas $1-$3 game. It’s an extreme example, but we want to start with it to show how different many of the strategies in this book are and to give you an idea of how different, in some situations, our approach to maximizing your expectation is from the typical player, and this includes most of those who are currently having some success in live $1-$2, $1-$3, $2-$5, and similar no-limit hold ’em games.

In a $1-$3 no-limit game, David was dealt the

K K

two positions to the right of the button. The first four players limped in and David only called. The next two players folded, the small blind called, and the big blind checked.

The flop came the

J 9 7

The under-the-gun player bet, two players called, and then David threw his pair of kings in the muck.

Virtually no one else, at the time of this writing, would play a pair of kings in late position in a multiway pot this way. They would have made a substantial raise before the flop, and on the flop they would have certainly played their hand.

But let’s notice something obvious. If one of the last two positions or one of the blinds would have raised, when the action got back to David, he would have the option to make a big reraise, and if there were also a couple of callers, he would almost always be a large favorite to win a big pot assuming he got at least one caller.

As for his fold on the flop, given the way the hand was played, the reason for David’s fold is a little more complex, and that will be explained in detail later in this book. He would not have folded if the flop would have come something like the

J 7 2:

So, this example should give you an idea of what this book is about. To be specific, it’s playing your hands in the way that will exploit the weak players to the maximum. And as you can see from this example, some of the ways to do this aren't the ways that are generally advocated by the current crop of poker instructors and poker coaches as well as some of whom have been around. But there are ways, which will allow you to win the maximum at a reasonable risk that these small live stakes games have to offer.

Example No. 2: This hand was played by David. Under-the-Gun in a $1-$3 game at a full table, David held the

A K

Instead of raising first in as most poker instructors would recommend, he limped in for $3 and got three callers behind him plus the big blind. So, after the rake, there was $15 in the pot.

The flop came the

K 9 4

and with top pair, top kicker, David bet $15 and got one caller. The pot (after the rake) is now $42.

David saw that his lone opponent only had $80 left. And when a T came on the turn, David bet $80 and was called by his opponent who was now all-in. Unfortunately, a club came on the river and this player showed the

6 2

for a flush which won the pot.

Now some of you might say that if David had raised before the flop, as most players would, he would have won the pot. But notice that he got his opponent to call a large bet (for this game) getting 1.5-to-1 odds when he needed to make a 4-to-1 shot. So, theoretically, David won much more playing the hand this way than he would have won playing the hand in a conventional manner. And over time, these theoretical wins do turn into real money.

Example No. 3: Here’s a hand that Mason played. A timid early position player limped in, and Mason had concluded that this player absolutely never bluffed. Everyone folded to Mason who called with the 77 on the button. The small blind folded and the big blind checked.

Three random cards, including one overcard to the sevens, flopped. The big blind checked, the timid player bet a modest amount, and Mason folded.

Example No. 4: Here’s another hand that Mason played. In a $1-$3 game, an overly loose-aggressive player, two positions to the right of the button, raised to $10. The button called and Mason, who held the

A K

in the big blind called. Notice that the standard play would be to make a big reraise.

The flop came the

J 6 3

Mason checked, the loose-aggressive player bet $15, the button folded, and Mason called with his ace-king and three-flush. The turn was the 6 giving Mason a four-flush. Mason checked, the loose aggressive player bet $25, and Mason called.

The river was the A. Mason checked, the loose-aggressive player bet $50 and Mason called with his (now) aces-up and king kicker. The loose aggressive player then turned over the

A 2

Notice that he had bet a total of $100 on all four streets and never had the best hand.

Example No. 5: And for our final example, here’s a hand that David played. Before the flop in a $1-$2 game that had a maximum $300 buy-in, David called a limp with the

8 7

Five players, not including the small blind, saw the flop, and after the rake there was $10 in the pot. The flop was the

A 9 4

which gave David a flush draw. An early position player bet $8, and David called. Now there was $25 (after the rake) in the pot and both players had plenty of chips. The turn was a blank and David’s opponent bet $15 into the $25 pot bringing it to $38 (after the rake). This meant that David would be receiving immediate odds of $38-to-$15, or 2.53-to-1, to call. And since making a flush on the river is approximately 4-to-1, even if David can collect an additional bet when his flush comes in, this does not seem like enough to warrant a call. But David went ahead and called, bringing the pot to $52 (after the rake).

The flush card came on the river. The early position player checked, and David bet $70, $18 more than the size of the pot. And after thinking for a while, the early position player called and his top pair lost to the flush and David made $108 on his $15 call, which is approximately 7.2-to-1 on a 4-to-1 shot.

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20 November 2023 at 04:32 AM
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by Mason Malmuth k

.

Obviously, you don't understand what the book says.

Care to show me where other coaches suggest limping the button with KK? I’ve never seen it suggested in a ring game. It sounds like a FPS play that was developed for low poker IQ individuals.

Should be easy to provide lots of other training products that advise limping the button with KK in a ring game


by PointlessWords k

Care to show me where other coaches suggest limping the button with KK? I’ve never seen it suggested in a ring game. It sounds like a FPS play that was developed for low poker IQ individuals.

Should be easy to provide lots of other training products that advise limping the button with KK in a ring game

We don't say to do this.

If you, or anyone else, wants to discuss what the book says, I'll try to answer. But you need to quit making up things that the book doesn't say.

MM


It was overlimping from HJ I think with the expectation the pot would usually be raised. The idea was not to limp in and then get the money in on later streets. In fact, Sklansky controversially folded the overpair on a somewhat wet flop.


by Mason Malmuth k

We don't say to do this.

If you, or anyone else, wants to discuss what the book says, I'll try to answer. But you need to quit making up things that the book doesn't say.

MM

I said you recommended a similar play

Do you know what similar means?

The CO and the btn are similar position

Open Limping either is a similar play, from a similar position.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


by deuceblocker k

It was overlimping from HJ I think with the expectation the pot would usually be raised. The idea was not to limp in and then get the money in on later streets. In fact, Sklansky controversially folded the overpair on a somewhat wet flop.

If you were to filter for hands where you limped Co/Btn with KK, both situations would arise. Sure it’s cute to think it’s makes a large difference if someone raises your limp or not, but it doesn’t. This is FPS plain and simple.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


by JimL k

The last thing you want is bad players in these games to read the book and their take from it is limping KK after a few limpers is acceptable and using the book as justification to do so.

Umm…. 😉


by PointlessWords k

I said you recommended a similar play

Do you know what similar means?

The CO and the btn are similar position

Open Limping either is a similar play, from a similar position.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is an example that starts on the bottom of page 184:

Example No. 1: In a $1-$3 no-limit game, you’re dealt the

KK

two positions to the right of the button and the first four players limp in. You should usually raise to either $20 or $25. If this hand looks familiar, it’s the same hand that appeared in Example No. 1 on page 3 in the “Introduction.” Except that in that hand, David just called with the pair of kings. However, raising here doesn’t contradict the play in the “Introduction” because calling (with the kings) only becomes right if the players left to act raise a lot more than usual, the limpers are tighter than usual and will often fold if you raise to $20, and the stacks are fairly large.

Also, in the first paragraph of the Introduction we wrote:

These are just a few of the many types of hands which for the live small stakes games, usually $2-$5 or less, that we sometimes but not usually play differently from the way almost all other players in these games will play them,

I suspect you haven't read the book. You would probably learn a lot if you did.


It's clearly a good play if some maniac is likely to raise and you can build a big pot with a 3-bet. It looks so weird it won't be that face up. Just raising KK loses a lot of value in that situation.

I don't see what the problem is. Their point is to deviate from standard play based on the players and situation. Obviously, not overlimping KK from HJ as a standard play. What is the point on continually misinterpreting and twisting what they are saying?


by larry the legend k

Post 202 by deuce itt. Declares authority on what has been discussed enough.

The bit got old quickly but I’ll admit I lol’d fr over this one.


by Mason Malmuth k

Our book doesn’t say to make this play.

Mason

I know it doesn’t as I just read the Bird In Hand chapter, which is why I said it reminded of this thread (meaning some of the comments). 😀


by Mason Malmuth k

This is an example that starts on the bottom of page 184:

I don't think learning something and changing his mind is that guy's strong suit, lol.


by Mason Malmuth k

This is an example that starts on the bottom of page 184:

you prob forgot but you told me to buy the book before I critiqued it. I did learn a lot but it was so frustrating learning how little you guys know that I had to put the book down

your chapter on GTO was the most eye opening thing I have ever seen. You basically spouted a bunch of thoughts and didn't use the scientific method to test them before publishing them

I mean, it was pretty hilarious. And youre right, I did learn A LOT.

I mean just in the hand you posted you said "calling (with the kings) only becomes right if the players left to act raise a lot more than usual, the limpers are tighter than usual and will often fold if you raise to $20, and the stacks are fairly large."

which just is blantantly false, there are other times it is correct to call with kings here, and it doesnt have to do with the limpers. It is quite easy to disprove "only" arguments.


here is a great example

"2. Since GTO is designed to beat all styles of opposing play from the tightest to the loosest, it should be obvious that it does not win at the rate of a good player who knows his opponent is much too tight or too loose and play accordingly"

pg 14, Dispensing with Game Theory (GTO)

I mean there is so much wrong here that its laughable but I was expecting as such

a) was GTO designed to beat all styles of play?

b)"It should be obvious that GTO does not win at the rate of a good player who knows his opponent is much too tight or too loose and play accordingly". Wut

c) Are you saying we should change our ranges after seeing opponents play an insignificant sample of hands?


by BullyEyelash k

Umm…. 😉

I was talking about from the authors perspective.


by BullyEyelash k

Time for a big stud resurgence, nay, a Resurrection! The $10K final table broadcast was wonderful. I canÂ’t believe people wouldnÂ’t enjoy having their own hand, especially kids whoÂ’ve only played HE.

What helped kill it were those terrible 1-4 1-5 games and dcking around with 50 cent pieces in 5-10. Dollar ante, $2 bringin, first to act completes to $5 would be a goldmine for good players and give the fish some bang for their buck. Overs buttons to ldo. Training dealers would be an issue.

Geez, I would love a stud resurgence. I say that as someone who isn't even very good at stud. I am probably average and could ramp up quickly, but certainly not an expert.

That said, stud can be a very fun game to play.

Unfortunately one of the reasons it isn't more widely played is the pool of current players. It is really unfortunate, but everytime I have attempted to play stud, it seems like every other player is an old man who has nothing to do but complain. I really believe the current pool of stud players does more to turn off potential future stud players than they do to attract stud players.


Put better, I would live to find a nice NLHE home game filled with fun players and introduce stud to them. Even if I wasn't advantaged in the game, I think it would be a great/fun game to play.


by BullyEyelash k

Just watched the replay of the $100K final table where KK on the button flopped a set and slowplayed JTo in the blind into a r-r straight and headed to the rail; made me think of thread and lol a bit.

It may just be pay per view, so I am not sure if I can post the link. I think you are referring to the hand in the in the 2024 WSOP $250K buyin with 6 players left. Tolerene, the chip leader with almost half the chips who is raising a lot, raises with JTo. Von Krienegsbergh, the 2nd biggest stack, flats on the button with KK. Flop comes K36,r. Turn a 9 and river a Q for the gutshot straight. Button flats the flop and turn and raises the river, and busts out. Supposedly they were all playing perfect GTO. Not sure if button was playing badly or unlucky. The set of kings was still the 2nd nuts on the river. Not sure what it has with this book, as play for a limp reraise is not slow playing.

I don't think stud is coming back. At high stakes, amateurs don't want to play robot-like GTO players, so the big games are mostly PLO and mixed games now.


by JimL k

Geez, I would love a stud resurgence. I say that as someone who isn't even very good at stud. I am probably average and could ramp up quickly, but certainly not an expert.

That said, stud can be a very fun game to play.

Unfortunately one of the reasons it isn't more widely played is the pool of current players. It is really unfortunate, but everytime I have attempted to play stud, it seems like every other player is an old man who has nothing to do but complain. I really believe the current pool o

Stud was a very good game. Also, all this GTO analysis would go away.


by deuceblocker k

It may just be pay per view, so I am not sure if I can post the link. I think you are referring to the hand in the in the 2024 WSOP $250K buyin with 6 players left. Tolerene, the chip leader with almost half the chips who is raising a lot, raises with JTo. Von Krienegsbergh, the 2nd biggest stack, flats on the button with KK. Flop comes K36,r. Turn a 9 and river a Q for the gutshot straight. Button flats the flop and turn and raises the river, and busts out. Supposedly they were all playing perf

The great thing about GTO is you can justify any proÂ’s play and criticize any amateurÂ’s play. I wish it had been the final hand of the ME.

I know it has nothing to do with the book—if anything it has plenty to do with Super/System—which is why I said it reminded me of this thread, not the book itself. I own the book, am almost finished with my first reading of it, but am only a third through the thread.

I know studÂ’s not coming back, but I was talking about 5-10 (hopefully with $1 ante & $2 BI), not high stakes.

ThereÂ’s GTO for stud ring games? I guess if youÂ’re playing online with a solver open?

by Mason Malmuth k

Stud was a very good game. Also, all this GTO analysis would go away.

Amen. And yes, in my experience with midstakes “pros”, the stud players were far worse than the HE & Omaha ones, especially the razz players. I played some 10-20 LHE with an elderly vet of the old 150-300 Vegas Razz games named Ron.

He could scarcely bear to fold rags preflop five hands in a row. Never seen anyone look more miserable in a poker game. Near tears of rage & frustration folding JJ on an acehigh flop, muttering and glaring skyward. Eruption and storming out if TPTK lost to an OESF draw. Nice guy away from the table; handsome, rich, beautiful wife; but he never lasted more than an hour in the game.

I once read a column on the WSOP side action: “…and then off in a corner 150-300 Razz, with ONeil Longson, JC Pearson & Sam Grizzle pushing the chips back & forth, waiting for the stupidest person in the world to sit down.”

by pokerfan655 k

Dude the guy said he has 6000 hours of tracked results - does that sound like someone dicking around having fun? If you're playing these low stakes in a serious manner which 6000 hours is serious then you're wasting your time when you could be improving/possibly making more money. Imagine if NFL players were like hey I like playing against high school kids I don't want to play in the NFL. See how stupid that sounds?

ItÂ’s probably fun having a 10-15 hour per week hobby that pays $8-12K a year taxfree cash on the barrelhead.


by BullyEyelash k

ItÂ’s probably fun having a 10-15 hour per week hobby that pays $8-12K a year taxfree cash on the barrelhead.

Yup, pretty much this. For the record, 6186 hours of 1/3 NL since 2010 (with 1/3 NL being the only game that runs in the room 99% of the time). Works out to a single ~8 hour session a week, which I currently do as two ~4 hour sessions per week, nowadays averaging a little over ~400 hours per year.

GcluelessrecreationalhobbynoobG


by PointlessWords k

here is a great example

"2. Since GTO is designed to beat all styles of opposing play from the tightest to the loosest, it should be obvious that it does not win at the rate of a good player who knows his opponent is much too tight or too loose and play accordingly"

pg 14, Dispensing with Game Theory (GTO)

I mean there is so much wrong here that its laughable but I was expecting as such

a) was GTO designed to beat all styles of play?

b)"It should be obvious that GTO does not win at the rate of a go

Still waiting for a response to this as promised by the authors.

Y’all said if I bought your book you’d go over it with me

Let’s go over it


by chillrob k

If you had bothered to read this thread instead of just pounding the same point over and over, you would have seen that he actually clarified that it over about 15 years.
That's about one 7 hour session per week.

And he’s made $100K+ cash, tax-free, with little stress/volatility over that period. If you live in a major city, how much have you spent attending sporting events & concerts in the last 15 years?


by BullyEyelash k

If you live in a major city, how much have you spent attending sporting events & concerts in the last 15 years?

very little.


by PointlessWords k

Still waiting for a response to this as promised by the authors.

Y’all said if I bought your book you’d go over it with me

Let’s go over it

The two things you brought up are common knowledge.


It would be very helpful IMO to know how this pot got to $80 in a (presumed) 1-3 game, though I do understand the concepts the problem is trying to illuminate.


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