Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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“One night in the emergency department, over the course of four hours, I saw six children between the ages of 5 and 12, all with single gunshot wounds to the skull.”
“All of my patients were suffering from malnutrition, 100 percent.”
Relentless quotations follow.
There are all kinds of examples in Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan of soldiers killing civilians for sport. That's sort of what happens when you do a war.
theres a lot more in this "war". its just a direct attack on civilians. any Hamas members that happen to get killed are by accident.
IDF reserve soldier here. We endanger ourselves in every operation, in order to avoid civilian casualties.
Just to be clear - we announce in advance which areas we are going to operate in, and give a notice to civilians to move to safe zones. after we start the operation, we do hold any movement in the area as hostile. sadly, some times civilians stay or move threw operational areas, and are fired at. even in those cases, we try our best to make sure it is not a civilian. but when a car drives threw a closed operational area, we have to assume it is terrorists, as usually it is a car bomb attack or hammas operative.
We would have loved to meet our enemy at an open battlefield. that is not the war our enemies are fighting.
Victor, you have not stated one factual claim so far.
and ofc you wont find a ruling about Nazi germany in the U.N. or the ICJ, as they were established after WW2
wowww a real life hero itt, thank you for your service
IDF reserve soldier here. We endanger ourselves in every operation, in order to avoid civilian casualties.
Just to be clear - we announce in advance which areas we are going to operate in, and give a notice to civilians to move to safe zones. after we start the operation, we do hold any movement in the area as hostile. sadly, some times civilians stay or move threw operational areas, and are fired at. even in those cases, we try our best to make sure it is not a civilian. but when a car drives t
no its a fact that Israel is on trial for genocide right at this very moment. and the ICJ stated that they were "plausibly committing genocide."
its also a fact that every day I see repeated evidence completely contrary to your claims.
I would love to enter a debate about the ICJ, and/or the entire idea of the Geneva Conventions application.
First, Israel has signed and is obligated by those rules, no doubt. None of our enemies signed the convention and/or are held accountable by it. just as a rule of law, that is the epitome of Selective enforcement.
Secondly, the convention was written to enforce rules on a symmetric war between countries. the drafters did not assume and did not take into account a war between a sovereign country and terror organizations. we are held accountable by laws that put us in tremendous unnecessary danger in every operation.
Third, as much as you are trying to grasp at straws, we are operating in accordance to the law, and are actually hold accountable by our own courts.
dont believe your lying eyes is what they always say
the drafters did not assume and did not take into account a war between a sovereign country and terror organizations.
This is pretty straight-forwardly ridiculous, of course they anticipated guerrilla warfare, it's been a thing since antiquity.
Pro tip: you're going to have to choose between "IDF always follows the ICJ" and "the ICJ doesn't apply." You can't really have both.
well, you believed your eyes when you claimed Hezbollah are not targeting civilians, and even tough i have produced so many facts, you are unwilling to budge.
you are a dishonest actor who takes claims from one side at face value, and ignore provable facts and evidence from the other side.
it is people like you who justified the Jewish persecution for centuries. just one more ignorant along side the road of history.
This is pretty straight-forwardly ridiculous, of course they anticipated guerrilla warfare, it's been a thing since antiquity.
Pro tip: you're going to have to choose between "IDF always follows the ICJ" and "the ICJ doesn't apply." You can't really have both.
misrepresenting my very clear statements, one more bad faith actor.
why can none of you argue to the merits of the claims?
well, you believed your eyes when you claimed Hezbollah are not targeting civilians, and even tough i have produced so many facts, you are unwilling to budge.
you are a dishonest actor who takes claims from one side at face value, and ignore provable facts and evidence from the other side.
it is people like you who justified the Jewish persecution for centuries. just one more ignorant along side the road of history.
they have just now started targeting civilians to some extent. I even made a post saying. for the whole year before, they were not.
and no, I dont believe your anecdotes. unless you provide some sort of link or documentation then I dont really care what you say.
I mean, ofc I am going to be super skeptical of the gov and army who have told some of the most brazen lies of modern history over the course of the last year. beheaded babies, burned alive babies, rape hoax, fake calendar, Mein Kampf in Palestinian schools, Al Shifa Hamas complex, Hind Khoudary murder. the list goes on and on.
are we trying to prove the horrors of war? as someone who fought in 3 wars, i can attest to that. do you have an example to a war fought in accordance to your standards?
and if so (which obv there isn't), can you name one against a terror organization?
please teach me to which standard we still need to hold ourself to
my standard is not to shoot children in the head execution style. I think thats where the disconnect lies in our values.
my standard is not to shoot children in the head execution style. I think thats where the disconnect lies in our values.
and off course you avoid all questions. i have read the article, and i can assure you that i care and did more for Palestinians, than you ever did, you keyboard warrior. i drive sick Palestinians kids to hospitals, i volunteer with many Palestinians during none war times.
every kid that dies in this war is a tragedy, none of them were executed, and every post you write seems more and more like nazi propaganda against jews.
yes, kids are shot. yes it is a tragedy. but some of my combat friends died because they hesitate opening fire, not knowing if it is a civilians, or a combat hammas operator. so as explained before, we do our best, but if civilians stay at operational areas, sadly they are shot sometimes.
sure sounds like they were executed. I tend to believe doctors to some extent.
when Fukuyama declared the end of history, he envisioned a world that holds liberal international values by all.
i remember the late professor Leibovitch explaining that his vision will never come into fruition, as humanity is to stupid to achieve such merit.
this chat is case in point
So why were ALL universities in Gaza destroyed? I saw footage of one university being dynamited. It wasn't bombed by planes or artillery. It wasn't an active battle zone because the IDF was able to set charges and conduct a controlled implosion.
The intention is to destroy Gaza as a functioning society.
So why were ALL universities in Gaza destroyed? I saw footage of one university being dynamited. It wasn't bombed by planes or artillery. It wasn't an active battle zone because the IDF was able to set charges and conduct a controlled implosion.
The intention is to destroy Gaza as a functioning society.
please let me answer your question, instead of answering it yourself.
first - history. in 2002, i fought in Operation Defensive Shield. we went to Birzeit University in Ramallah, and found weapons, explosives and more. we held a 2 days search and left the place intact. a week later two attacks came from there against civilians.
Secondly, not all universities in Gaza were destroyed, that is fake news. we did bomb 6 or 7, as they were nothing more than hammas outposts, and hammas was engaging war from them.
moreover, education is a very important topic. what you call universities, mostly the ones we attacked, were mainly radical Islam teaching institutes, among their second purpose of being hammas outposts.
the amount of weapons, tunnels, explosives and such, that we found in those places, was astronomically. ask your self, who shelters weapons in real high education institutes?
hamas operating out of universities makes sense given their documented history of operating out of school, hospitals and so on
i particularly recall that rumble outside a hospital in which it was simultaneously claimed itt that hamas were not there and it was all lies etc, and also that the IDF were driven back after a 6 day battle
