GGPoker killing the HS poker dream?

Natural evolution of the high stakes games is to be more hands on and selective of who gets to play and why they get to play with your "liquidity providers".

We see that strategy here in Vegas and it's been unpopular to "regs" who can't access the market. They are "forced" to play in gen pop because they don't want to play the "networking game" to access the closed market.

The "best" players have developed the "best" in line and out of line strategies - restricting who gets to play based on your own criteria seems like a good move to put a stop to some of that but opens the door for corruption in a different way. RTA/Tool strats are out in the open now and very hard to restrict if the operator uses a "good" strategy deploying.

Its hard to believe how so many players willingly support the shitshow which is known as GG.

But its the only place with action 24/7.

In hindsight it is obvious that any game operator will exclude customers that compete for deposits. It's not different from bookies limiting winning bettors, and stronger players will negotiate for large losing accounts with access to the games.

Another step removing online poker from strategical meritocracy and turning it into another casino game for losing players.

Disappointing to see ChicagoJoey seemingly supportive of it. Becoming good at poker used to be something to aspire to. Not anymore.

There will be no fairness from game runners as their incentive is to have 0 winning players in their pool making sure everything deposited is raked to them in the end. Believing that they will have some sort of fair model for who gets to play in the game is both naive and dumb as you are effectively asking the game runners for a handout.

I think they will end up shooting them in the foot because they are destroying the ability to win which was one thing that separated poker from other forms of casino games.

I’m supportive of a more hands-on approach to managing who plays in high-stakes games; there are multiple ways to make it work, and each arena handles it differently. Personally, I’m working on leveling up in Hold'em because it’s becoming so popular here in the U.S., especially with the next generation. New platforms are entering the market, and regulated options are gaining traction. With the learning tools available now, it’s easier than ever for players to improve.

For those chasing the ‘poker dream,’ I think there’s still room for traditional, open-arena formats with gradual stakes, where anyone can battle their way up to high-stakes cash games. I always enjoyed that side of the game and what it represents.

However, there are some places where poker is turning into more of a casino-style experience, with a house edge or jackpot-style payouts (DraftKings recently launched this, for instance). For those looking for a classic poker experience, I'd recommend finding sites that still value skill and competition. GGpoker seems to be trying to balance the traditional model with a winner-limiting approach, though I haven’t played much there myself. Some sites are offering poker that seems more like a ‘chop house’ of AI agents rather than a genuine poker environment.

Ultimately, it all depends on the game runner—some operators welcome skilled players who take on depositors, while others prefer complete control.

With several sites making moves to capture the high-stakes world, I’m excited to see how they approach this balance. Poker’s foundation is built on skill, strategy, and fair play, and I’ll always advocate for that.

And where is this room to "Chase the dream in traditional, open-arena formats with gradual stakes"? Can you name one operator that is supporting this ideology? There isn't, and that's because the operators of the poker rooms aren't incentivized to cater to the "dream" or to professional players. GG has constantly alienated pros, no bumhunting in a high rake environment that is only beatable with a fish on the table, modified rakeback models to winners of the game giving less rake to them and now squeezing them out of high stakes games...as Rahm said we are just getting closer and closer to poker being another slot machine.

Lets trade around some coolers reg vs reg and all lose to rake, disregarding the fact that 90% of people that played this game pursued it because there was a perceived skill edge and an aspiration to play at higher and higher stakes (GGs mantra)

From the great and astute minds that brought us "more rake is actually better".

Better for who? Better for the winning players? Better for the recreational? Well, recs are going to lose a lot more in game due to extortionate rake, but they may be under the illusion that its better for them because of GG's PVI system and BBJ to redistribute "EV" in such a way that it re-directs the liquidity to recs to increase the longevity of their deposit so that they can continue to get raked. So who benefits from this? Its kind of true that "more rake is better", but it appears that it is only "better" for the operator.

But what could go wrong by making 5knl+ games private and empowering those "hosts" who has the power to grant rite of entry, curate games and whatever else because historically, nothing ever goes from wrong concentrating power in the hands of the few, especially poker players and degenerates. The most recent example of such abuse of power that comes to memory is the sexual harassment scandal that embroiled HCL.

FYI, I have no issue with GG enabling hosts or any player to create private games or clubs on GG, but to allow them to monopolise 5k+ games on GG is kind of lol.

I really hope WPN and other networks step up and fill the void that is left here.

#MoreRakeIsBetterForGG

I imagine there’s a solid chunk of people that would otherwise just play live - recreationals I mean, and weaker regs. Seems like it could lead to hella FOMO for online hs regs, but getting more people playing online could have some positives that haven’t been explored in this thread yet.

Playing devils advocate a bit, it does seem moderately concerning at a glance. But might as well consider all the impacts.

Maybe some wealthy recreational players just want to play vs big names to gamble against the best, what about that?

I remember high stakes poker series when first aired on TV, some billionaires and NBA club owners were playing against pros like Barry Greenstein, Doyle Brunson etc imagine without big names they may not even be interested to play with each other at all

I doubt it knows about Draft Kings poker unless it reads 2p2 front page 😃

We can do it on my show together if you prefer the discussion there - this is a pretty interesting topic.

I think that's why having 2 separate areas depending on the game and the VIP and what type of games they are looking to play makes sense. If GG wants to do "private game" invite only style for all of a certain arena - they could have a version of that open to the players who want to battle it out in the public arena as it's always been.

It runs pretty similar here in Vegas - there are still some "higher stakes" public games around town you can battle if that's what you are looking for. There wasn't much for me for PLO for a long time but it's picking up now. A lot of the higher stakes game are some version of invite only which sounds like what GG is proposing. It isn't GTO if you're looking to have options to play "high stakes" public games in the traditional sense. If I want to play nosebleeds now I try to go on one of the live streams, create my own game or try to get invited to a private game in the casino. It would be nice if there was some type of "public" ecosystem to battle in right now which does exist up until a certain limit.

In the USA you have a pipeline to go from small stakes to the highest stakes live stream games and private games which is more of the "poker dream" here these days if you're goal is nosebleed battles. It seems like you can still make a name for yourself battling on GG and tournaments on PS/GG/ACR but I'm not following it that closely outside the 2p2 HS thread and a few creators who make content now. Lots of new online people who seem to be crushing it are getting on my radar through podcasts like Mechanics of Poker and social media.

Sites like Coin Poker, Phenom Poker and WPT new site are looking to get in the mix for that type of player so we will see if they create something like that for players. It's never been easier to create your own site and settle in Crypto so I expect more people to start to get in the market.

Looks like Joey is going corporate. Polishing up his social media presence at the moment. I wonder what for...

ooh ooh..is your podcast returning?

Are you trying to find sponsors for it? Or hoping they find any info on you and deem it safe for work 😃

Bro... mad respect for you, you're like my poker hero if I had such things.

But don't do post like that again please. That was just weird man.

Does this mean all the end bosses are going to move down to 10/20?

Always looking for a good investor and you never know who might be out there watching

I require all sponsors to watch my 12 hour live streams where I do edibles and use virtual FX gorillas and rockets in a tanktop before finalizing anything in the private room to make sure we are the right fit

Podcast is on standby ready to go - lots recorded already and nice stories/people lined up - some surprises that should make things interesting. Will be talking about the current state of high stakes. I prefer the live world a bit more than online but following on 2p2 has been interesting lately. Doing more live event content soon vs online.

I like that this forum is starting to heat up again - nice to meet you as well

Anyone who thinks this is good for the games because sleazeballs have made money doing it with live poker is a shill or backwards.

An open market where anyone can grind all the way to the top and play with the best has always been what made poker special. Turning in to a brown nosing contest behind closed doors is only something that appeals to the site or the select few regs who weasel their way in to the games.

I will believe it when I see it. ��

"Open the door for corruption in a different way" ?

This is in fact corruption, every game like this have always worked the same way. Game runner / operator demand a piece of the winning players.

It's straight up disgusting, the time we hsnl regs have spent to remove every cheater there is for the last couple of years. If the sites actually listened to the players there wouldnt be any cheating.

I'm sorry, but is it true that this is the only place online where HS games still happen?

I was under the impression that CoinPoker runs highstakes fairly regularly, there are some BTC only options that feature HS games some times along with some (admittedly) invite-only clubs that are fairly liberal tho.

The games moved from Stars to GG because they were better there. It would not surprise me if they moved somewhere else if this move proves to be a mistake.

If the games still run, great for GG. But I believe it will be hard to consistently get 3-5 recs to fill a table. Regs provide opportunities for tables to run as they will, generally, always be ready and willing to play.

GG could make HS a promo, like "win a leaderboard, get your seat in HS" and it could be an healthy way to improve action since players could compete for a place there.

But meh, I just think HS games will be raked even more, since pros cannot strike effectively anymore. What a mess

Yeah I was wondering how will this even work out in practice? Every HH from highstakes thread shows 5 regs 1 whale. How they plan to even start the games? This is a terrible idea not just in general but from their perspective too. They’d be much better off increasing the rake, tweaking the PVI even more in favor of fish or introducing BBJ to VIP tables. They have it at massage parlos already. ��

Joey, you do you boo. If they shelled out 500m for WSOP they need a real red blooded American to patch up. Hope you get the bag, no hate from me, I’d do the same.

Ya this seems like a way to reopen the door to how the eco used to work where Bryn was all these top guys agent getting a big piece of their RB. Whoever is going to be deciding who gets to play and who doesnt will very likely just do what private games do where that entity gets a piece directly from the game while also getting to make deals with regs.

Rahm brought up a good point about fish selling accounts too. Which is a win for me I guess as I now have something to bring to the table(jokes... maybe) but then you're going to have ppl ghosting accounts . This will 100% happen.

GG would be better off filtering players they're trying to protect from getting crushed by regs(so they can exploit themselves) into clubGG games or something and allow for balance transfers so you can still deal directly with their cashier.

True fish have no real connections to even get an invite into games in the first place. GG still allowing chat might help this but no punter appreciates getting singled out and asked to join a restricted game. It comes across predatory af and might even be a reality check for the person and lead to them quitting.

Do they mention if they'll still be rake-raping everyone? Why not just utilize rb to give losing players over 100% back and crushers dont get rb? That will self regulate the pools pretty well

What use is Elky, Fedor etc being paid by GG when they cant even stop ******ed things like this from happening?

Do they even care or just collecting their own bag?

Ppl still fire their d1cks off on acr. Not like the good ole days but it happens