GGPoker killing the HS poker dream?
Recently it has come out that they are planning on making VIP games (5k+) invite only taking a path which many feared co
This change being good for their bottomline is debatable, and its not simple.
Look what happened to Amaya/pokerstars when they made changes to "benefit their bottomline" by removing supernova elite.
There is value you dont necessary see right away in keeping the poker dream alive. AKA being able to grind all the way from micros to HS.
As a site if you keep only making changes to **** the regs and for your bottomline, you dont know when you reach the tipping point of "**** it" lets move elsewhere and suddenly you got no games at all
I think online poker site should always strive for the largest possibe playerpool with a rake thats beatable for players and profitable for site.
I agree their decision could backfire just not sure what you expect paid shills to do about it.
Joey, I always enjoyed your podcast and you’re a likeable guy but I’m disappointed to read your take on this.
It does not seem like your genuine opinion but just out of self interest.
Game integrity used to be one of your biggest principles that brought popularity to your podcast.
Selling out on that very principal is sad to see. Hope you reconsider or if this is a misunderstanding and this is not about sponsorship/money please elaborate.
In hindsight it is obvious that any game operator will exclude customers that compete for deposits. It's not different from bookies limiting winning bettors, and stronger players will negotiate for large losing accounts with access to the games.
Another step removing online poker from strategical meritocracy and turning it into another casino game for losing players.
Disappointing to see ChicagoJoey seemingly supportive of it. Becoming good at poker used to be something to aspire to. Not anymore.
if pros regs realized losing players were their customers and treated them accordingly we've have less games going private live and these essentially will be private games online. sorry but studying poker to be better than your opponents is just part of the job not all of it.
it's like a casino laying out +ev home games for the house (which is what poker is for winning players). that's all well and good but you still need customers and need to get them to keep coming back.
poker pros have to be the only professionals in anything that think they don't have to do anything to get customers. a poker pro is essentially a small business owner and should treat is as such. you can be a great plumber but your plumbing business is going to fail if you don't treat customers right.
online poker in 2024 is rife with collusion rta bots etc. the sites aren't the ones doing/using these things, players are. why anyone is surprised at steps like this is beyond me.
All rake paid isn't equal.
Anyone who thinks this is good for the games because sleazeballs have made money doing it with live poker is a shill or backwards.
An open market where anyone can grind all the way to the top and play with the best has always been what made poker special. Turning in to a brown nosing contest behind closed doors is only something that appeals to the site or the select few regs who weasel their way in to the games.
good for the game? no. but I look at what's causes stuff like this. And it's the players not the sites or live poker rooms.
You think players being toxic for their own games and player pools is good for the game?
Poker isn't a pro sport where people pay to watch the best in the world play. You need people losing money playing to keep things running. You can try to spin it as something special but that's the reality. Sure you CAN play with the best if you have enough money where you can't play Lebron in basketball. But WHY would anyone want to? Playing with Dnegs etc in the old days who are going to give some rich due some fun for his money makes sense for the rich guy.He gets an experience and occasionally he wins and has a good story. You think the rich dude wants to play Sven the tanking gto bot with a 30 pound bookbag drinking green tea at the table or the equivalent online?
If you're some whale playing high stakes online you want a halfway decent shot. You don't want to play against a bunch of people running rta, backed by the same people, in the same stable etc. Players create a race to the bottom then cry when they succeed . It's comical.
And GG like any other business is out for their bottom line. If doing this makes them less money they'll get rid of it. But they didn't set up shop to make other people money.
Natural evolution of the high stakes games is to be more hands on and selective of who gets to play and why they get to play with your "liquidity providers".
We see that strategy here in Vegas and it's been unpopular to "regs" who can't access the market. They are "forced" to play in gen pop because they don't want to play the "networking game" to access the closed market.
The "best" players have developed the "best" in line and out of line strategies - restricting who gets to play based on your
Your gratuitous use of quotation marks is disturbing.
Natural evolution of the high stakes games is to be more hands on and selective of who gets to play and why they get to play with your "liquidity providers".
We see that strategy here in Vegas and it's been unpopular to "regs" who can't access the market. They are "forced" to play in gen pop because they don't want to play the "networking game" to access the closed market.
The "best" players have developed the "best" in line and out of line strategies - restricting who gets to play based on your
I'm not really sure how this is natural evolution of the games.
It's a shame to see you have this opinion, I guess you don't play poker for a living any longer, and are more involved in making money through poker, with commentating and those gigs (Could also be bias with the GG commentary?)
The main thing that attracted me as a "recreational" back in the day and then turning myself into a poker player and playing millions and millions of hands over the last 15 years.
Were the highstakes cash games that used to run on full tilt, and being able to rail these.
I'd follow the guys that played there and had favourite's just as if I had a favourite sports team. Follow who was winning, who was coming through the stakes, and then I'd support them when they'd appear on shows like High Stakes Poker, or Poker after Dark. I guess I'd support them and even more so the new prodigy coming through, because I had the dream of one day being able to do that myself, with this newfound natural evolution you're suggesting.. you'd be killing off that dream.
IT's a suprising outlook from you Joey. You've always been one to look out for the players, and in my opinion more so on the aspiring reg looking to make a 'fair' living in the game.
I'm not sure how much of a good evolution this is either; You mention Vegas Casino games, and having to develop strategies to "network" to get into games. This situation is only good for a few regs, that have managed to lock others out from the games. I also don't see it as "networking" and a genuine act as doing anything necessary to get yourself on side with these guys to be able to play.
Anyways, Bring back the old Joey ♥
Great change. Crushers with no personality, can't get in.
Go find big games elsewhere, competition drives the market. Excellent opportunity for a hungry site to capture market share if they wish to compete.
Offer something better and players will go.
btw, if there is a popular demand for 10/20 vip games, why not just add 10/20 stakes? Why do they need to replace 25/50 games?
the reason forcing people to play the "social game" of poker i.e. hyper-focused predation is bad, is because the world championships of "how to profit in gambling by becoming a manipulative social predator and mountebank" would have a first prize of jail time in a just world.
Sorry but the current crop of poker pros have had a large hand in leading the community to this point. Endless greed, coupled with non-existent morals have created an environment where the most desirable recreational players don’t feel comfortable competing. Poker pros thought they could eke out every edge, colluding, RTAing, ghosting, etc and the whales would just sit there and take it. Wake up call to those who haven’t realized yet that no one is forced to play poker and for the biggest contributors, it’s nothing more than a hobby.
Has there been any response from GG on this yet? Surely if you get rid of the high stakes pros, you just end up with semi-pros who win with larger winrates and there would be far fewer games running which entails less rake overall. It also creates all sorts of problems with ghosting and damages their brand reducing the number of new players who are going to deposit in the first place.
Sorry but the current crop of poker pros have had a large hand in leading the community to this point. Endless greed, coupled with non-existent morals have created an environment where the most desirable recreational players don’t feel comfortable competing. Poker pros thought they could eke out every edge, colluding, RTAing, ghosting, etc and the whales would just sit there and take it. Wake up call to those who haven’t realized yet that no one is forced to play poker and for the biggest con
In fairness, no they don't. I can't stop people cheating at the tables. That is ultimately up to the site and the cheaters find loopholes to get into the games anyway. It just hurts honest players.
In fairness, no they don't. I can't stop people cheating at the tables. That is ultimately up to the site and the cheaters find loopholes to get into the games anyway. It just hurts honest players.
I don’t think you get what I’m saying. If you’re an honest player, then this sucks for you but you’re not who I’m speaking about.
If you’re going to try to explain to the whales how they are wrong about their own situation, then sorry but you really don’t get what I’m saying.
GGPoker operates an online casino now, who do you think their main target audience is? High stakes poker pros or rich recreationals who like to dump a few thousand in slots after blowing a couple buyins at the table?
Sorry but the current crop of poker pros have had a large hand in leading the community to this point. Endless greed, coupled with non-existent morals have created an environment where the most desirable recreational players don’t feel comfortable competing. Poker pros thought they could eke out every edge, colluding, RTAing, ghosting, etc and the whales would just sit there and take it. Wake up call to those who haven’t realized yet that no one is forced to play poker and for the biggest con
You clearly dont play in the GG VIP games, because you seem to know nothing about them, so why are you speaking here thinking that your voice matters on the subject?
We all agree here on zero tolerance on RTA/colluding/ghosting
I think most of us are fine with measures against stables/tanking/bum hunting to create an environment that is more in spirit of the game.
GG is a shady grey market gambling corp so they’re doing what’s best for their bottom line is understandable
What is not understandable is players here doing GGs bidding for them. Players that came from the very group that’s being discriminated against.
You clearly dont play in the GG VIP games, because you seem to know nothing about them, so why are you speaking here thinking that your voice matters on the subject?
Right, and I’m sure GG themselves know nothing about the VIP games either. As the expert, why don’t you enlighten me and let me know which part of what I said was wrong.
Right, and I’m sure GG themselves know nothing about the VIP games either. As the expert, why don’t you enlighten me and let me know which part of what I said was wrong.
Most of the high stakes players actually have pretty high morals. There isnt really any colluding, RTAing or ghosting in GG VIP games.
Sure there might be a little, as can be in any games, and making the games invite only doesnt remove that.
If there are "pros" with low morale, its the guys trying to push for invite only games.
Most of the high stakes players actually have pretty high morals. There isnt really any colluding, RTAing or ghosting in GG VIP games.
Sure there might be a little, as can be in any games, and making the games invite only doesnt remove that.
If there are "pros" with low morale, its the guys trying to push for invite only games.
So there’s some unspecified amount of cheating going on. It looks like GG is just following an already occurring trend in poker which hasn’t seen much pushback from recreationals.
Easy solution:
Figure out how much the average HS reg pays in rake each month.
Start a site where you charge a monthly membership fee of 10% less or so than what the average HS reg currently pays in rake.
Make all games HS and rake-free.
Regs can play all they want without paying rake. You’re not breaking any laws because you’re not taking a rake and people are simply paying a membership fee.
