GGPoker killing the HS poker dream?

takes away from what exactly? the way pros want the game to be and the way what they studied it? who cares what they want.

If horror shows want to play uno for big money you play uno for money. If they want to play battleship for money you play battleship. They don't have to play your game.

Frankly adding wrinkles into games that people haven't studied makes more a much purer game than seeing who regurgitates the best. Poker is about thinking adapting and exploiting.

I've seen wrinkles come and go over the years. If bad players have fun with them and don't get slaughtered too bad bc of them they keep doing them. If they find them boring or they're getting destroyed too fast they go away. Simple.

What's obviously backfired magnificently is the entitlement a ton of pros have that bad players owe them money and have to play with them no matter what. They want poker to purely be who has the best fundamentals and nothing else matters. But making money at poker is so much more than that.

It's not a sport and you're not gonna make money in the manner professional athletes do.

they could try to explain something while still being wrong. You have to be dumber than pigeon **** to think there isn't cheating at high stakes online and all levels in 2024.

but yea a bunch of people who have never once even considered why bad players play or how to keep them happy are the ones I should be listening to.
people who clearly have no common sense whatsoever and think poker is purely about who plays a hand with the perfect precision with the highest EV and nothing else matters. classic stuff. you're beyond naive if you believe that cheating isn't going on in these games. which makes sense bc a lot of poker pros, especially younger ones are great at delving into the minutia of hands and not good at much else. zero common sense or critical thinking skills whatsoever.

"trust me bro most of these guys know each other nobody would cheat". gtfoh.

what's next nothing shady goes on in these high rollers where a bunch of people have pieces of each other in the same small events and share backers? lmao.

Now if you said it's harder to cheat in high stakes than it is at mid or low stakes I'd absolutely agree with that.

there is a big chance that Daniel finally will beat 5knl if it runs

youre a live player who doesnt even play online why do you think your opinion matters on any of this again ? every post you make you just come across as more ******ed the 23 in your name must be short for your iq ?

So software doesn't allow for clicking to join specific seat anymore which isn't going to stop bumhunting at all it's just going to make it less convenient for everyone including recs?

So you are whining about a site trying to make bumhunting less convenient? Also making collusion slightly less profitable.

Did you miss the part where the rake HU is unbeatable?

ItÂ’s not because high stakes players know each other thatÂ’s just an additional factor specific to high stakes.

ItÂ’s because the logistics of cheating are more complicated/not worth it than you think.
Simply put timebanks on most sites are short enough that you canÂ’t easily multitable and RTA in a profitable way.

LetÂ’s say you 3b AK SB-BTN and get flop J83r. A solver is going to bet big, bet small, and check each at some frequency. Do you really think you stand to gain that much more by RTA+RNGing that **** instead of just studying it for two seconds? Winning money involves multitabling to stack more fish rather than knowing the minutiae of some flop situation where the information vacuum (your opponents strategy could have changed since you were able to last gather data) makes it difficult to know the profitability of one strategy relative to another.
How much time do you have left after you RTA the flop to make even more consequential decisions on later streets?
Every time you access RTA you are facing opportunity cost of lower hands per hour, you want to be able to make reasonable decisions quickly so you can get dealt AA in your next hand and stack a whale.
In my experience RTAers are capped to 3-4 tables max and often are only able to RTA flops which I think accomplishes little. At that point your hourly is probably similar playing live and youÂ’re risking ban.
if you are able to make any kind of decent money playing online poker why would you risk sending your income to zero by getting banned rather than just studying and developing some kind of framework to make decisions.

In summary the incentive structure and logistics are not as strong as you think in favor of cheating.

Yea that's why I picked the screen name. You really got me.
Oh that was a real knee slapper!

Why do I comment about poker on a poker forum? Guess I'm a weirdo.

I've also commented about baseball in the baseball thread and football in the football thread. I'm a strange guy.

*tumbleweed*

.What you say is absolutely true for really good players- slowing down the game for them costing them volume in the process would be foolish. Definitely can't argue there.

But morals aside, running rta (which is only going to get better over time) and colluding make a lot more sense the worse someone is.

If you want to pretend cheating in the cesspool that's online poker is basically non existent I have a bridge to sell you.

People cheat when they have no morals,think they won't get caught (or that if they do get caught it's still worth it)and can make more cheating than playing straight up. That's always been the case and always will be the case.

To be clear I'm not saying everyone winning in high stakes games online is cheating.

Is it? I don't play in these games so I can't say for sure, but it certainly looked like there was a ton of action at 5k+ on GG over the last year or so.

Did you read a single post in this thread before posting? Like did you even read the first post?

bro I play online poker you dont need to inform me that there has been cheating in online poker. Youre goalposts have shifted a lot since you first posted here saying "cheating is rampant in online poker."
Now it's "pretend that cheating is basically nonexistent.." Nobody is saying its nonexistent, just the problem is overstated.
Neo poker bot which was covered in another NVG thread is a much greater problem for online poker.

A really smart move business wise and poker ecology wise tbh.

Whales lose way too much money too quickly playing high stakes, for the site to rake them enough.

And professionals who only win money, and do not do content creation to bring in new customers, are a net negative to the ecology of the game. This is a really interesting way to excluded these individuals.

The risk is that new whales cannot instantly play high stakes. However, from their action, it seem that its a small risk compared to keeping the existing whales happy and on the site.

Would be interesting to see Tan Xuan, Tsoukernik, Tony etc will start playing on GG again. GG got to number 1 for a reason, and i think this will keep them there.

Interestingly, it also caps the EV income of top professionals on GG to around USD300-500k a year. Which is really smart imho.

Now, by playing on GG, they get to play on a regulated site that will ban people for Botting/RTA, and have the means to trace. And there is no need to play against the clubs own bot farm etc.

And they can still play against other recreational etc, in a borderline impossible to solve format (Squid+35% vpip+ multiple stack sizes).

Sounds like a **** ton of fun tbh, as a recreational.

Yeah, its called providing value, in order to get value from others.

They now incentivise that, instead of just being a parasite studying solvers.

You can still make around USD300k if you really crush the current games.

If you dont like providing value by networking and being a good host, and want to make more than USD300k a year, go find something else to do.

AI consumer apps is fun 😀

This isn’t how RTA works in 2024. This wasn’t how RTA worked in 2018.

The bulgarian cheating software that got leaked years ago (no idea if i’ll be able to find the video of it) ran off a pre-ran database.

Most solutions had been ran and converted into simple range outputs. You didn’t have to load in a 4GB tree file for every spot, just run the feed of your clean playing computer through and Elgato, scrape the feed with software to identify your spots, and output all relevant sims on your cheating computer. ACR banned remoting_host.exe which helps, but doesn’t get around the manual method HDMI splitting.

Hard-code variance in the decisions it tells you to do, so it gets past pattern recognition that sites run, have a person click all buttons manually with planned patterns in the time used.

This isn’t super awful to set up. Get a CPU farm going, or automate a way to scrape all the results from GTOWizard AI on single-size configs and you’re pretty in there once you’ve got every spot locked.

Rudimentary database that only handles facing one size isn’t going to be terrible if the cheater has a level of poker knowledge and knows how to adapt response vs b25 and b100 (we don’t all play the same strategy obviously), but with a big enough data pool you can come pretty close to EV.

There’s probably more sophisticated methods running now, and likely less sophisticated methods have still found somewhere that they can work (ACR 100NL anyone?). Potential reward is high, so it’s being worked on.

If you have a brain you don’t need to solve anything to take a fish money it don’t matter the rules whether it’s squid or bomb pot dummy. Extra blinds put in the pot before the hand is dealt will cause fish to lose money faster not slower too.

The only regs who want high stakes private are guys like you and Berkey who could never compete with good players and need to curate games in order to win

And why are using all those quotes

Is there other hidden VIP games going on right now? or this is all GG got after changes?

Agreed. They have essentially forced the regs to earn less (whilst putting in my volume), making alot more per reg AND per fish given that now the highstakes whales cant dust off their roll in a minute at nosebleeds. From alot of different angles that you've mentioned it is really an intelligent move from their viewpoint

Wtf are you on about. Games have absolutely died since the changes came in and there are no recs or regs playing, just empty lobbies… high stakes was thriving earlier in the week before the switch

Same happened when the high stakes regs went on strike last year. Turns out you do need a big pool of regs to attract the recs as they don’t like to table start or battle heads up

hating on someone for winning in a game you're not in is the biggest nit thing you can do

I’m asking because when they first added Exclusive games i saw also VIP section and few tables were playing but VIP section disappeared, maybe it was some kind of bug or they hide it and now VIP games going on? If not then its really foolish from GG to kill games like that