Israel/Palestine thread

looks like more 0-15 die than 16-19

Oh i meant proportionally to their total ofc.

If it was bombs, they would die all the same (ie 2% of the 1y old, 2% of the 2old and so on).

Instead death rates of the 16-19 are a lot higher than death rates of the 0-15, maybe this is saying it better. And the 0-1 dying in excess can't be bombs either as explained.

now go through all of the rest of the differences. like why do 39 yr old men die a lot more than 38 or 40 yr olds?

looks to me like you are cherrypicking stats to fit your conclusions.

I like how that 14yo Dutch kid knew exactly what was going on and was waiting outside the stadium to report on it.

Seems like lots of racism and blurring of nation/race on both sides. It all sounds like both sides attacked people beyond the ones actively participating in any provocation or violence.

Wrong again.

Bearing in mind that we're talking about football supporters, it seems evident that Maccabi fans engaged in unsavoury and provocative behaviour. Quite possibly the antisemitic attacks would have happened anyway, indeed that's not unlikely, but, because of the fans' behaviour, it's hard to say.

no its pretty unlikely.

and citation needed on the whole "antisemitism" thing. bc so far from what I have heard all of the local dutch Jews or Jewish people or whatever the preferred nomenclature is nowadays in this thread have said that attacks were only directed at the Maccabi hooligans.

"Unsavoury and provocative" when Israelis call for death to Arabs.

I wonder what it would be called the other way round?

how many of these guys were trained soldiers who had done war crimes? I bet a lot of them were!

Yeah, play the victim while you are attacking people. Where have we seen that before.

****, me what an appalling person. Imagine not only revelling in genocide but taking your 13 year old kid along to chant racist abuse at Muslims, then going on to social media to whine about being stopped.

we all know what happened. and in the mean time Israel murdered like 50 kids a day.

Who the **** shouts during a moment of silence for flood victims? Outrageous behavior, even by soccer fan standards.

We knew all of this already. The problem is it appears this attack was well planned out before the match. There were 5-10 thugs outside each entrance ready to attack Jewish fans. They demanded to see passports and told people to show their support for "Palestine". I'm sure there are Mossad agents in Amsterdam now and will deal with those involved.

It's kind of like the fans who cheered that Deshaun Watson was hurt. Can you blame them? Can you really blame the Israeli fans for shouting against a country that would like to see them dead?

Oct 7th?

A mod appears to have accidentally banned me for 24 hours. That is ok, water under the bridge.

Anyways, what appears to actually have happened is at the soccer game fans on both sides engaged in very questionable chanting. The pogrom apologists on this forum have already elucidated what some Macabee fans were chanting. Additionally, some (but not most) fans of the other team were making pro Holocaust related chants.

You know more than me, but my understanding is bad behavior by (normally a small number of) fans is not uncommon in European soccer, which has resulted in multiple instances at the club and national level where teams have had to play in empty stadiums due to bad behavior by fans. And lots of violence that has occasionally spilled into the streets following games.

Anyways, the attacks on Jews following the game had nothing to do with the game at all, or anything that took place during the game. They were planned by activists on Telegram and WhatsApp for days ahead of time. The Dutch authorities were aware activists were planning on showing up to create trouble, but were completely unprepared for the size and organization of the activist attacks on Jews.

And the entire narrative tying the pogroms as retaliation for what soccer hooligans were chanting during the game is just complete gaslighting.

Sure. You can hold fans accountable for poor behavior during soccer matches. It happens all the time. The point is the violence on the streets of Amsterdam wasn't linked to this behavior at all. It was planned well ahead of time.

And arguing the attacks were in response to fan behavior is bad faith apologia for Islamist inspired violence.

The majority of deaths were not children. That was a very curated sample of ~8000 casualties.

Because that is what the authors of the article intimated.

I was not making any comment on your motives. I dont have any idea what your motives are. My point is you seem to have picked a side as to what information is accurate and what we should care about. And I dont think your model of the world matches reality very well.